The problem is that any new coach would be following . . .

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by BigRex, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. The problem is that any new coach would be following . . .
    BigRex

    BigRex Points Member


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    Pete Carroll. That's how the USC fans would lo0k and any new USC coach.

    When Helton finally goes on his way, probably in two years, the new coach will not be judged based on a comparison to Clay Helton. He won't be judged against Sarkisian, Kiffin, or Orgeron either. If he goes 9-3 his second year, the fans won't be thankful that he won two more games than Helton did. They will be angry that he won two less games than Carroll would have. Carroll's record after the first year was 91-13 over 8 years, an average year of 11.5-1.5. An average year at USC for him was 12 wins. 12 wins. That's just incredible.

    What successful college coach in his right mind would come to a program that was expecting an average of 11-12 wins per year? Would a coach like Fickel or Campbell leave a program that was thrilled to win 7 or 8 wins a year, to come to a place that demanded 11 and sometimes 12? Would a coach making $4 million a year, who was adored by the fan base, take a pressure cooker position that paid $5 million a year and had fans who demanded near-perfection?

    I wonder if one of problems in replacing Helton is that the USC admin cannot find qualified, successful coaches who are willing to come for what USC would be giving them and demanding in return.
     
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  2. GoSC27!

    GoSC27! Points Member


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    I think you got this right, that USC may not be the coveted end all destination for some coaches as it once was. I also think we missed the boat with Meyers. If we moved 2 years ago there might have been the chance that he would take the job, but that ship has since sailed. He was the only one talking positive about the potential head coaching opportunity at USC should Helton be relieved. It was very uncomfortable when he had to do his live on air congratulation to Helton when we pulled the win over Utah. Lastly, like he has an infatuation with Trevor Lawrence, I also think he had an infatuation with Slovis.
    You also listed the failed coaches from CPC’s tree at USC, although they are now the head coaches at ole Miss, LSU, and now Texas. I began thinking about that there are a lot of similarities between CPC and Saban. First, Carroll was able to get the most production from these coaches even if some were just assistants. If the press starting focusing on one assistant, like they did with Chow, Pete was quickly to sever the relationship. The same was done with Kiffen at Alabama as Lame found his way out via Florida Atlantic.
    In either event, Pete had an identity and he made sure that everyone was on the same page. Anyone that went outside of these boundaries were moved out. The same with Saban, meaning he also runs a tight ship. He sets the direction and anyone not on board can also get off the Saban train either forcibly or voluntarily.
    Both coaches also know talent pertaining to coaching even if some of them are immature. Saban has even taken that to a whole new level employing failed head coaches as consultants, He essentially has his next assistant in the waiting should some of his current coaches get poached.
    Besides these similarities they do have different personalities. One is the cup is half full, the other is half empty. Essentially both have successful systems in place and their culture identity is bought in throughout the program. I think Urban has been saying that a lot this year in his morning talk shows although eluding to other programs like Michigan etc.
    This brings me to my final conclusion that although it won’t be happening Meyer would have been the right fit for our program. My second thought is that Matt Campbell has successfully installed his culture and system at Iowa state, but you are correct can it work in LA where fans expectations are accustomed to the win now, world championship comparisons? Bohn definitely has a tough job, but it seems like he is doing a lot of the little things right!
    Fight On!
     
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  3. Hockey10

    Hockey10 Junior Member


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    I think ultimate goals can come into play. An HC like Campbell for ex. may desire being known as an all time great. Winner of multiple NC's. It won't happen at Iowa St. He won't be named with the Carroll's, Saban's, Meyer's or the greats of old. He may desire making a move to the NFL. Coming to a program like USC is a place that can give him that opportunity. Making a name at USC can be all the things a great HC desires and aren't afraid to take the chance to achieve.
     
  4. GoSC27!

    GoSC27! Points Member


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    Everything I have been reading is that Campbell is a low key guy, that loves the Midwest. Not to say he might convert to a city guy. He is the center point for his program and the kids love him. When his players were given post awards, they all made reference to credit Campbell and his program culture.
    I agree that he would be a great coach here, but the question is can he build Iowa St into a powerhouse program that can compete with the likes of Alabama, Ohio state, Clemson, and Notre Dame. Is the risk of coming here greater then jumping to the NFL? I don’t think it will be an issue money wise, but more about coming here and dealing with a fan base that has high expectations and has very minimal patience. Being at Iowa St. there are no Dodgers, Lakers, to compete with. There is little risk for failure where he is at as the community also embraces him. I am sure Texas tried to reach out to him before the Sark Hire. He was also second on my wish list behind Urban, but in the end like Urban, I don’t see it happening!
    Fight On!
     
  5. Cyrus

    Cyrus Junior Member


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    This would not be a problem with Urban Meyer. I think he can match what Pete did.
     
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  6. Troy70

    Troy70 Junior Member


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    I would be thrilled for a HC who ran a tough program. Had good game day management & time outs. Improved his players. 3 years would be fair to show he is right.
     
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  7. SeattleTrojan

    SeattleTrojan Junior Member


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    So, why did PC come to USC knowing we had McKay? Why did Saban go to Bama after Bryant? Why did Urban go to Florida after Spurrier. All coaches who go to a storied institution such as USC do so knowing there were giants before them. Why doesn’t a losing program like ucla attract more great coaches? There’s no giants they’d have to follow. The great ones don’t want to. The great ones see 4 and 5 star recruits playing HS football in their backyard, a national brand recognition and a storied past.

    Now, if you’d claimed that Folt was a barrier, or that it’s just too high a cost of living to attract a good staff, or the unwillingness of USC to invest in CFB, well, then I could see your point.
     
  8. JImmytheGreek

    JImmytheGreek Junior Member


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    Firing a head coach and hiring another one. Happens countless times a year all over the world in every sport. Why is everyone so intent on making this seem so difficult? Bizarre.
     
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  9. heyrev

    heyrev Junior Member


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    So, doesn't matter to you who replaces Helton? Just get anyone, as long as it's not him, huh? Well, doesn't say much about your management skills, but at least you're honest about your anti-Helton sentiments.
     
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  10. nvargas

    nvargas Junior Member


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    #10
    Not worth overanalyzing...it's just Helton-Exhaustion...wanting a change of scenery and assuming the chosen replacement will be better.

    I find it more entertaining to debate posters w/ nuanced takes on who would be a better fit and the reasons why it would/wouldn't work...rather than basic "Get Rid of Helton" takes. It's a sentiment, not well thought-out position.
     
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  11. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    You cant really replace somebody until they are gone, right? From what I understand unless its Sark its bad form for a coach to interview for a job that isn't opened yet? I know this happens under the table. So the firing of Helton is independent of the replacement. The replacement would be incumbent upon the firing. No? Once the job is open you can address the potential candidates. I'm sure generic feelers would have been put out.

    There is an excellent case to fire our coach, even if the replacement has not been solidified.
     
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  12. conquest4ever81

    conquest4ever81 Points Member


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    Lol. Some people are slow learners. Once again for the comprehension impaired.
    HEAD COACHES WHO LEAD THEIR TEAMS TO A ONE LOSS COMBINED SEASON AND POST SEASON RECORD SIMPLY DO NOT GET FIRED!
    28648057-funny-portrait-of-a-man-shouting-with-hands-cupped-around-his-mouth.jpg
     
  13. Cyrus

    Cyrus Junior Member


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    Yeah, seriously. We actually want coaches that want this challenge. If a coach is worried about McKay/Carroll legacy and not being able to measure up then that is the wrong guy. I am sure Urban is not worried about being compared to McKay or PC. He has confidence that he can do even better than them.
     
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  14. Dartmouth

    Dartmouth Points Member


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    Cost, Cost! tttttttttooooooooooooo expensive to flush the man out. Clay is like a major wild fire, sometimes you just got to let it burn itself out to where it's LOW enough to take action.
     
  15. Peete2Affholter

    Peete2Affholter Junior Member


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    #15
    At this point, Helton is like that Centralia Mine Fire that has been burning since the 1960s. Ypu can't put it out, and hoping it will burn out is also a fool's errand.
     
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  16. LoyalTrojan

    LoyalTrojan Junior Member


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    #16
    upload_2021-1-7_13-51-49.gif
     
  17. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    He's more like Chernobyls core meltdown. Shit aint never going away
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
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  18. Hockey10

    Hockey10 Junior Member


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    I didn't take his point this way. What is so hard about getting rid of a terrible coach like (Helton) and to start interviewing new coaches? Starting with great ones like Meyer's who appeared to want to come here and working your way through a list of potentials. Eventually you will find your candidate. "It happens in every sport, all the time, all over the world"
     
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  19. Hockey10

    Hockey10 Junior Member


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    You can even start the process behind closed doors in secrecy. We could have put out feelers with multiple coaches and then fired Helton when we felt we had a good option and deal in place. What would he do? Threaten to quit if he found out.
     
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  20. AlbertoC

    AlbertoC Junior Member


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    #20
    Any new coach should be compared to Pete Carroll, and Howard Jones, and John McKay, and JR1. USC has unique advantages over virtually any other college football program. They have as much tradition as anyone with the possible exception of Notre Dame. They have awesome weather to play in. They are smack dab in the middle of 30 million person population base chock full of great football players and with very little local competition. Top that off with great academics, beautiful women and being smack in the middle of the best name, image, likeness location in the country, all of which allow you to also recruit nationally, and you have a program with unparalleled advantages over the vast majority of other programs.

    You need to seriously screw things up like Lane did with his arrogance, Sark did with his drinking, and Clay did by being a bad football coach, to not be in the national championship hunt more often than not.

    The only thing stopping USC football from being great is an incompetent administration.
     
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