OT - again; "free tuition?"

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by User1234, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. TMBDave

    TMBDave Points Member


    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    47
    Feb 21, 2020
    #21
    This is also consistent with the practices of many ivy schools as well as Stanford.
     
    aimeedee likes this.
  2. aimeedee

    aimeedee Points Member


    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2017
    Messages:
    8,861
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    Feb 22, 2020
    #22
    Just curious -- when did you go to USC and what was your "income level". You don't have to tell me the exact income --- but what do you mean by "I WAS BELOW A CERTAIN INCOME LEVEL?" And why are you screaming about this? I could understand if USC were taking your money against your will and giving it to someone else. The University is taking private funds that have been donated freely and investing them where they see fit. The fact that someone else is getting something nice doesn't mean you're losing anything. Do you have the same degree of resentment for trust fund babies who have their whole education funded by grandpa?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  3. ConquerorSC

    ConquerorSC Points Member


    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    2,559
    Likes Received:
    1,645
    Feb 22, 2020
    #23
    This post is so distorted and fear-mongering that it’s not even funny.

    The federal govt cannot díctate how much colleges can raise tuition, especially not private institutions. Where is your link with proof of the supposed 7.5% tuition increase cap? I highly doubt that you are citing any source correctly.
     
    jpq21 likes this.
  4. trojandave

    trojandave Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    31
    Feb 22, 2020
    #24
    this is financial aid to those families that can't afford the high cost. This is not financial aid to students that are either too stupid or uninitiated.
     
  5. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    11,041
    Likes Received:
    18,054
    Feb 22, 2020
    #25
    I haven't seen nor heard of any such legislation. This link has info regarding tuition increases by private, in-state, and out-of-state over the last 20 years and also year-by-year. The IS and OOS are less than 7.5% and the privates increase each year fairly close to that percent but I don't think it's tied to federal mandate.
    https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2017-09-20/see-20-years-of-tuition-growth-at-national-universities
     
    ConquerorSC likes this.
  6. nvargas

    nvargas Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    Feb 22, 2020
    #26
    You sound very bitter and "Get Off My Lawn" Grand Torino'ish. Good for you that you earned everything you got and had to work for every $, that honor is yours alone. Do you complain that the current generations of students at SC are far higher achieving and the school much more selective than when you attended? Can these current students complain about that, or will you proudly boast that your alma mater is with the elites?

    And again, yes, every other private elite school does this...so what's the problem?

    You're comparing apples to oranges regarding what you paid and what current prices are and just how selective SC is now. I'm sure you were/are a prodigy and would get into SC now, but times were different then regarding admission and giving preference to legacies/in-state. That is no longer. The recipients of this "free" (trigger word, think Bernie Sanders and get angry) admission are truly unicorns; students who are in the stratosphere to get the same offer from the likes of Furd/UChicago/Ivies etc.

    So chill out and live, and let live. You sound like my father-in-law complaining about how rigorous boot camp used to be as compared to now and how drill instructors used to be able to punch you in the face...there's no virtue in it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
    Lucky, jpq21, Peete2Affholter and 3 others like this.
  7. Oldschoolrock

    Oldschoolrock Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    119
    Feb 22, 2020
    #27
    I think some parents on the cusp or near the threshold could and will sandbag salary for 4 years if in ideal situation to do so along with kid wanting to go there with the grades to get accepted

    lets say I make 85K yr salary with 2% wage increase.
    250K for 4 years for free under 79K
    250K /88K salary loan at no interest would run close to 31 years to pay off same loan with those additional earnings...this is not to say the parents don't go jump back to increased salary when kid graduates....
     
  8. aimeedee

    aimeedee Points Member


    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2017
    Messages:
    8,861
    Likes Received:
    1,775
    Feb 22, 2020
    #28
    Exactly. Kiddo #3 was courted by USC and was offered a generous merit scholarship. (#1 and #2 were thrilled to go to USC and have no regrets about the debt. USC was the right school for their goals.) But, even without big merit scholarships, UChicago had a better overall financial aid package for #3 and was more in line with his academic goals. He graduated this past June, debt free.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
    nvargas likes this.
  9. SCAnteater

    SCAnteater Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    121
    Feb 22, 2020
    #29
    Do you really think the $85K family will get no financial aid? You don't think it's a gradient, where families under $80K pay no tuition, and families who make $85K pay some amount, but probably less than the families making $175K?
     
  10. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    11,041
    Likes Received:
    18,054
    Feb 22, 2020
    #30
    I realize you posed these questions to another poster. I would say that while I don't complain, I take exception to the concept of "higher achieving" in and of itself and to the notion that somehow, it makes for a better student or campus. If given the choice to sit at a meal with a group of Harvard grads or USC grads from earlier days, I'd pick #2 all day every day. A well-rounded group can include really smart kids who don't have a 4.5 GPA or a 35 ACT. And no, I don't proudly boast about USC being "elite". For one it sounds incredibly pretentious, and for two, it has nothing to do with MY degree. Add in the scandals and no level of academic eliteness could make me boast at the moment.

    I would not get in today. Again, it sounds as if today's academic achievements somehow translate into better human beings, better college community contributors, and prior generations had something wrong with them. No need to shit on one at the expense of the other.

    His opinion, his business, his right to feel that way. Telling someone else to "chill" is typically not successful.


    Maybe no virtue in punching someone in the face but lowering standards to become politically correct isn't the solution either. When women don't have to achieve at the same level to get in to special forces, we have a problem.
     
    GLA4USC likes this.
  11. nvargas

    nvargas Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    Feb 22, 2020
    #31
    I appreciate your point of view, I would never tell you to mind your business

    Respectfully, I'm not trying to debate which students are "better", or implying that current students are "better" for society or that I want to have a beer with them. I'm simply saying by academic metrics (SAT/ACT level of classes taken in HS, amount of extracurriculars, amount of leaders and community volunteering), it's a different ballgame and it takes "more" to get in these days than say...30 yrs ago. It's just a fact. That doesn't mean we want a school of automatons, but simply that the association of the current academic rigour to your and others' degrees is a reality, and one that you and others will benefit from.

    I was exaggerating by suggesting anyone would openly "boast", but it is a sense of pride to claim that kind of admission rate and overall ranking (whether you admit it or not). Yes, current climate is not great, but it will subside...eventually, and the academic standing will still be there.

    This is a chat board, it's my right to opine on his feelings. If he/she didn't want feedback, they wouldn't post their thoughts here. And trust me, there's not a thing I could tell Merlin that would be "successful", I have a strong feeling he/she has made up their mind about this topic. Not sure how I would go about guessing what might be successful.

    Who said anything about lowering standards? If anything, this would higher standards, since it will now attract top students that could not afford SC, even with merit scholarships. For goodness sake, this is exactly what the Ivies do, Stanford, UChicago, NYU, Carnegie Mellon, etc. etc.... What's the problem?
     
  12. old scotty

    old scotty Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    16,367
    Likes Received:
    19,953
    Feb 22, 2020
    #32
    Pardon me if I do not put the "Ivies" on that exalted perch they think they deserve....

    Long ago I was urged to apply to those places, got in at several, went so far as to visit, met nothing but people with whom I would never want to associate. Turning them down, as with Stanford, was one of the best decisions of my long life
     
    GLA4USC and User1234 like this.
  13. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    11,041
    Likes Received:
    18,054
    Feb 22, 2020
    #33
    Yes, it takes "more". Although much of what is being required or done today wasn't even considered "back then". When I was applying to colleges, EC's weren't really a factor. Today you have kids boasting $1M philanthropies, photojournal down the Amazon, a pharmaceutical breakthrough when they were 12 years old. It's to the point of ridiculous. The fact is that along with all that rigor and achievement, comes massive stress, more drug use, higher suicide rates, and kids who can't deal very well with disappointment once they become a small fish in a big pond. There is absolutely nothing about today's USC academic rigor that I will benefit from.

    Side note....my son is a junior in high school. A couple weeks ago for an English assignment, students had to select a topic to give a speech on. My son did his on academic stress. All students provided written feedback to each speaker. My son brought home the feedback and I read what 22 other students said and every...single....one....said they were overwhelmed with stress and pressure over grades, classes, getting in to the "right college", test scores, EC's, etc. It was alarming. Is this really what we want for college students?

    Really....there is nothing to admit. I do not brag nor feel any pride over what USC's acceptance rate is. Why would I? I had nothing to do with it and I have no association to it. I agree that the academic standing is likely there for the long haul. But for me, so is the anger I feel over how USC handled the Tyndall situation. That's not going to subside for the victims any time soon. I'm fucking pissed and no acceptance rate, ranking, rigor, is going to change that. Same goes for the general cover up of SO many things and the unrelenting pursuit of money at USC's reputational cost. It is everything that is wrong at USC.

    I was speaking about the military there, not college.
     
    GLA4USC and trojan9999 like this.
  14. nvargas

    nvargas Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    Feb 24, 2020
    #34
    This is what's relevant to the OP's issue. Things are "different" now than before. Being bitter about "what it took" to get in and stay in back then vs. now is not comparable. The kinds of "work" a student had to do 30-50 yrs ago to be able to afford SC and the kinds of philanthropic/leadership/service/academic work students have to do now are are just different in style...but 1 no less than the other. So just like I shouldn't "shit" on the students of old, neither should they "shit" on the students of now benefiting from programs that still require these students to bust their asses!

    Absolutely, and this saddens me. The "game" has been flipped around and what's important in the longrun is no longer prioritized. Our university system is broken, and no longer streamlined to provide our society's needs of an educated workforce without undue debt burden or having to compete w/ foreign nationals by having our kids stand on their heads to impress schools. "Higher Education" has gone the way of military industrial complex/healthcare insurers and now exists to benefit itself. We're now stuck playing this perverted game.

    This may be true for you, personally. I'll take you at your word. Reality is that many alum here benefit from the current academic prestige at SC, even despite the scandals. Having SC on the resume means more internationally/nationally (maybe not so much locally), than it did 30 yrs ago. Where a person attended college and how that factors into status/pay is debatable, depending on where you work, but I'd argue the statistics would prove the mean for pay/career growth has only been helped w/ SC's recent status...even if you did not attend recently.



    Sidenote, my daughter is also a HS Jr., and has to balance her time between community leadership, club leadership, charitable work, tennis and managing like 5 AP classes. This is why I don't feel guilty about insisting she get a job during school and being "oldschool" (walking to school, uphill, both ways, thru the snow) like some other people from 40 yrs ago. And no, I don't want this for her. We've recently signed her up for calculus tutoring and counseling to work through her stress...what a combo!

    Agree with all this, but your take is specific to SC. More germane to the OP, we're debating the movement of the more elite schools to offer this "free" opportunity, and whether this equates to "freeloading" and a "watering-down" effect as it relates to Bernie's "free stuff" nonsense. Your take is absolutely justified and understandable, but it doesn't address the overall issue and why the OP has a problem with it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  15. Trojans2015

    Trojans2015 Points Member


    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    370
    Feb 24, 2020
    #35
    I graduated 5 years ago and would have benefited from this immensely (my dad worked a high-income job and got laid off during my freshman year, but due to previous income and home equity my family and I still had to pay or take out loans to cover the majority of tuition every year, whereas under this policy we wouldn't have had to pay anything the last 2-3 years I was there) and I hold no bitterness towards kids that were in situations like mine or worse and will benefit from this going forward. In my experience, the idea that students from families making less than $80k don't work as hard as kids from the families paying full tuition is ludicrously false nonsense.
     
  16. User1234

    User1234 Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    2,313
    Mar 1, 2020
    #36
    Tuition has NOT "skyrocketed." As I said it has been growing at 7.5% for a long time now. So how could we have avoided being disadvantaged by Folt s give away back when we signed up and struggled through blood sweat and tears? Are we sap heads no one cares about so you guys can feel good about your PC approach? What is this really about??
     
  17. Lucky

    Lucky Points Member


    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    90
    Mar 1, 2020
    #37
    has ur income grown by 7;5% annually. If so good for u but most people working for for some one can't say that. Also that 7.5% is being compounded annually. Thus a USC education without room and board is probably a 250k investment.
    Instead of being pissed off maybe u should be happy for the kids who aren't saddled with debt for next 20 years.
     
    ConquerorSC likes this.
  18. PacTrojan

    PacTrojan Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    948
    Likes Received:
    847
    Mar 2, 2020
    #38
    USC is a private public benefit non-profit institution of higher education. This is being funded out if its $5.7 billion+ endowment, and as an alum I definitely feel it's the right thing to do.
     
  19. Peete2Affholter

    Peete2Affholter Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,219
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Mar 2, 2020
    #39
    I'm not mad about this at all. Yes, I took on tremendous debt going to college (even with the help of grants and scholarships and such). My parents were kind of in that "no-man's-land" that many middle class families fall into - too much income to qualify for the best financial aid packages, but not enough to simply pay full freight outright. And this was over a quarter-century ago.

    I am happy that USC is making itself more accessible to those who might probably appreciate the benefits of education more. College in general shouldn't be just the domain of the wealthy and privileged.

    Also, as mentioned, the individuals benefiting from this are indeed unicorns. Someone from a decidedly disadvantaged background who nevertheless has the grades and talents to succeed at the college level is someone who should be helped to fully realize their potential.
     
    ConquerorSC likes this.
  20. User1234

    User1234 Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    2,313
    Mar 2, 2020
    #40
    What the hell do you mean fear mongering? Are you afraid it's political or something? It is none of the above. It's simply obvious. I worked my ass off - you don't seem to appreciate that - whatever -- but now people don't have to. Why the hell should I be OK with that?

    This is not a difficult concept.
     

Share This Page