In Japan and America, more and more people think Hiroshima bombing was wrong

Discussion in 'MKJ Off-Topic' started by 901 Club, May 10, 2016.

  1. fssca51

    fssca51 Junior Member

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    Exactly! The Navy figured to lose many thousands of sailors, Marines and many ships in amphibious landings on the Japanese Mainland addition to the Arm'y losses. The total number of losses was estimated at over a million and a half counting Army Air Force. At that point in the war the Japs had perfected their tactics of defending an island. They had perfected the deadly Kamikazi attack and still had enough elementary aircraft to use it against an invading force. They had gone underground with military arms and aircraft manufacturing and still had a very large standing army of something like four million seasoned soldiers. They were an efficient, deadly and tenacious enemy whose Bushido code of military honor would not allow them to surrender. I was a Navy sailor, one of thousands being readied for the invasion of the Japanese Mainland. I was stationed on a new Navy destroyer in shakedown trials in the Gulf of Mexico when the word came that the Hiroshima bomb had been dropped. Without that bomb there's a very good chance that our four kids might never have been and I would not be typing this post to OT today. Naturally, I'm ok with the bomb,
     
  2. fssca51

    fssca51 Junior Member

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    tested and found to be the best.
     
  3. TheRealAirbns

    TheRealAirbns Junior Member


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    I've never understood the objections. It's a bomb. And?

    It's a bigger bomb? So what? Isn't that a good thing? Why the stigma, just because it's a certain type of bomb?

    And don't say radiation poisoning is a particularly gruesome death, because the Allies were using incendiary bombs on civilians as a strategy, in that war. If you think radiation poisoning is a tough way to die, try molten phospor splashed on you and burning through your body while you're still alive.

    War isn't supposed to be pretty.
     
  4. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


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    As lefties like to say...if the Bomb saved at least one American life, it was worth it.
     
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  5. Troianus Acies

    Troianus Acies Junior Member


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    FOR ALL THE MOUTH BREATHING SNOWFLAKES:
    The P.C. version of war is a tulip poking out of every muzzle, a tube of KY jelly in your pocket and a sign saying make love not war while your head is about to be blown off as a result of your absolute ignorance of what WAR is all about.

    FOR ALL OTHERS:
    If you are not a veteran and have not experienced in your face, up front, combat with death staring you in the face at every turn...you will need to ask a combat veteran what the definition of WAR really is. You see, you cannot ask the hundreds of thousands that are dead as a result of WAR, nor can you imagine their sacrifice, because you are still free, alive and living in the liberty they earned for you.

    FOR ALL VETERANS OF ALL SERVICES:
    Whether you were in combat or not, you all signed the dotted line of enlistment, raised your right hands and swore to god that you would defend your fellow citizens and the Constitutional Conservative Republic of the United States with all you had at your disposal, including your life. For all who served, this nation owes you the deepest respect and grateful thanks for placing your lives on the line to serve your country and its citizen civilians.

    wwg1wga
     
  6. Ridge Rider

    Ridge Rider Points Member


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    Ditto, no Ridge Rider.
     
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  7. TroyBill

    TroyBill Junior Member


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    A lot of dumb ass people with 20/10 eye hindsight that think this way. Most were never around at the time. We killed more Japanese when LeMay fire bombed them. It is mostly people who were not alive or never served in the Pacific during WWII that think this way. The death toll to invade Japan would be insurmountable
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  8. prescottbear

    prescottbear Member


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    To the millions alive today because of NOT having to invade mainland Japan and having bloody hand to hand combat for every inch of land, be thankful. Many more would have died if that had happened. Give your Grandfathers a hug and thank them for your lifle and 75 year old history can ALWAYS be rethought. It is bull poop.
     
  9. LaissezFaire28thStUSC

    LaissezFaire28thStUSC Junior Member


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    I have thought a lot about this today, the 75 anniversary of dropping the atomic bomb on Nagasaki which ended WWII.

    As we contemplate the 75th anniversary of dropping the atomic bombs on Japan, some are questioning whether the United States should have used atomic bombs on Japan in August 1945. It was the right decision then, and in retrospect was the moral and patriotic decision. Those who question the decision like Monday morning quarterbacks 75 years later need to consider the facts surrounding the decision.

    The United States had no fault in the 1941 surprise attack on Pearl Harbor. Before he died, I talked to a US Navy sailor stationed there on that fateful day. He confirmed what history books have reported that none of the American personnel he talked to expected a Japanese attack against them.

    During the tough fighting in the Pacific in 1942, 1943, 1944 and early 1945, US forces had to pry unwilling Japanese fighters out of one island after another. Kamikaze pilot sacrificed their lives to fly their planes into American ships as it became clearer that Japan was losing the war. Over 100,000 American military people were killed in the Pacific Theater during World War II.

    Military planners expected that Japanese citizens and soldiers would fight to the death. That would have required American soldiers to exterminate most of population to conquer Japan. Japan’s population in 1940 was estimated to be about 73 million people. Various estimates ranged from 200,000 to 1,000,000 Americans soldiers would die in the invasion and conquering of Japan.

    Dropping the atomic bombs on Japan forced their government to surrender to the United States. It saved millions of Japan lives and hundreds of thousands of lives of innocent American soldiers who did not start the war with Japan.

    My dad was 14 years old when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. As an 18 year old in August 1945, he had been drafted and was learning to build bridges for the invasion of Japan. Dropping the atomic bombs ended the war and saved the lives of 200,000 to 1,000,000 Americans soldiers who would have been sent to invade Japan. My dad and his cohorts would have been most at risk to be casualties. Lots of Japanese lives were saved too.

    But the job of the American President is to protect Americans, especially in wartime. Saving those American lives was obviously the right decision, and the duty of the President at that time. It also allowed millions of baby boomers to be born and millions more of their children to be born. I contemplated all of us that I've known during my life that never would have been born. It would have been immoral and unpatriotic NOT to drop the atomic bombs to save American lives and end the war sooner.

    Had Japan not been invaded, millions of people like me are alive today would have never been born. Ask the critics of dropping the atomic bombs on Japan if OUR LIVES MATTER!
     
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  10. fssca51

    fssca51 Junior Member

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    As an aside, Pres. Truman and his advisors were very much aware of the plight of England who lost an entire generation of their men in WW1 when they made the decision to use the bomb. If America had lost your father's (and mine) generation we would have been like England after WW1. America's next source of soldiers and sailors would have to be 14 an 15 years old as was the case in Nazi Germany toward the end of WW2. German soldiers left to meet the advancing Russians were mere children. Point is, wars do wipe out generations of men. The bomb saved us from that catastrophe, and saves Japan from it aw well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  11. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


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    If you ever travel around France, you'll see that every small town has a WWI memorial, often with the names of dead soldiers from that City. WWI was probably a more searing experience for France than WWII...and probably why they surrendered at the sight of the first German.
     
  12. IETrojanFan

    IETrojanFan Junior Member


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    There are anniversaries, and there are anniversaries. Some commemorate happy events, and others keep in mind important events. The anniversary of the dropping of the bombs on Japan would serve, I hope, to both celebrate a victory and also to remember something horrible enough that we hope humankind will not be forced to repeat it.
     
  13. LaissezFaire28thStUSC

    LaissezFaire28thStUSC Junior Member


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    My grandfather's home town in Southern Illinois has an wall in front of a public building with the names of soldiers in World War 1 from their city. It was important here too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  14. 901 Club

    901 Club Junior Member

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    One city opened a coliseum in the early 1920s with “memorial” to them written on it.
     
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  15. fssca51

    fssca51 Junior Member

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    1923 to be exact and that Memorial Coliseum stands today.
     
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  16. 901 Club

    901 Club Junior Member

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    BOOK REVIEW

    From the paper a few days back, just now making it to this thread.

    To add to our collective understanding,

    +++++++++++++++


    ‘Countdown 1945’ Review: Checkmate in the Pacific

    Japan believed that only the vanquished can decide when to stop fighting. The bomb gave the U.S. unprecedented persuasive power.

    [​IMG]

    On the night of Aug. 9, 1945, with the Japanese war effort in full collapse, Gen. Yoshijiro Umezu, a member of Emperor Hirohito’s all-important Supreme Council for the Direction of the War, told his colleagues in the presence of the emperor: “We cannot promise victory, but we are not yet defeated. We are aware that the war situation is difficult, but with the determination of one hundred million people and with further preparations, it might be possible to find life in death.”

    In “Countdown 1945: The Extraordinary Story of the Atomic Bomb and the 116 Days That Changed the World,” Chris Wallace, the anchor of Fox News Sunday, has made a taut nonfiction thriller out of the dramatic days between Harry S. Truman’s succession to the presidency, following Franklin D. Roosevelt’s death on April 12, 1945, and the dropping of the first atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki less than four months later. Structured as a series of datelined vignettes and fashioned as a countdown, the narrative lopes through its well-chosen selection of historical moments. This is a deeply absorbing reading experience about the fateful final months of a conflict that deserves to be known in detail to all Americans. It is what a popular history book should be: propulsively paced; well researched in primary sources; and written with sympathetic imagination, bringing people to life in their important moments. It will encourage and enrich many conversations on its subject.

    Mr. Wallace and his collaborating writer, the journalist Mitch Weiss, give us a rich cast of characters, foremost President Truman, who was deeply shaken when he first learned of the existence of the atomic bomb shortly after Roosevelt’s death. “He was shocked,” the authors write, “that a project of this size and expense, with plants across the nation, had remained a secret.” The president was also concerned “with its short-term implications for international relations, especially with the Russians.” Coaxing Stalin to join the war effort against Japan was a top agenda item for Truman. But most of all, the president feared the “long-term consequences for the planet.” As Gen. Leslie Groves, the military commander of the Manhattan Project, wrote in his presidential briefing: “Atomic energy, if controlled by the major peace-loving nations, should ensure the peace of the world for decades to come. If misused it can lead our civilization to annihilation.”

    As U.S. victories over Japan piled up, from the fall of Saipan in July 1944 to Okinawa in June 1945—Hirohito and his war council seemed impervious to the logic of defeat. In war, as they understood it, the victor does not determine when the war ends. Only a defeated power has the privilege of deciding when the fighting will stop. But Umezu and his fellow bitter-enders—Gen. Korechika Anami and Adm. Soemu Toyoda—held to a number of surrender demands that went well beyond the retention of Hirohito on the throne. They insisted upon no occupation of Japan by U.S. forces, and war-crimes tribunals and a disarmament process run by Japanese authorities alone.


    It required two atomic-bomb attacks to shake the Japanese leadership from this self-destructive madness. Only after Nagasaki was struck by the second bomb on Aug. 9 did Hirohito finally speak his mind on the question of ending the war. Surrender without conditions, he told the war council, was “the only way to restore world peace and to relieve the nation from the terrible distress with which it is burdened.” Among these hard men, tears flowed.


    PHOTO: WSJ
    COUNTDOWN 1945
    By Chris Wallace with Mitch Weiss
    Avid Reader, 312 pages, $30

    Messrs. Wallace and Weiss give us vivid and engaging portraits of Col. Paul Tibbets Jr., who 75 years ago today flew the B-29 bomber known as Enola Gay on its mission to Hiroshima; Tibbets’s air crew, notably his navigator, Theodore “Dutch” Van Kirk, and his bombardier, Tom Ferebee; Robert Oppenheimer and his fellow scientists at Los Alamos; and a number of individuals whose lives would be irrevocably altered if an invasion of Japan went forward.

    Truman’s Pacific commanders were marshalling three-quarters of a million troops for Operation Downfall, as the planned ground invasion of Japan was known. The president knew it was to these troops that he owed the greatest consideration. As many as a third of the invasion force would not survive or come back whole. “A quarter of a million of the flower of our young manhood were worth a couple of Japanese cities,” Truman would later say. The bomb was “the most terrible thing ever discovered,” the president wrote in his diary, “but it can be made the most useful.” The “chilling cost of failing to use it,” the authors write, outweighed the president’s desire to avoid it.


    On the Pacific island of Tinian, near Guam, as Tibbets and his crew prepared to take flight on Aug. 6, the day began with a prayer. The Lutheran chaplain attached to Tibbets’s group intoned: “Almighty Father, Who wilt hear the prayer of them that love Thee, we pray Thee to be with those who brave the heights of Thy heaven and who carry the battle to our enemies.”

    Those enemies, Truman finally judged, were “savages, ruthless, merciless, and fanatic.” Without the atomic bombs, the Pacific war almost certainly would not have ended in 1945. Truman’s fateful decision saved innumerable lives on all sides by compelling a war-mad Japanese leadership, at last, to reckon with reality.

    Hirohito’s dramatic conference with his war council is unaccountably not part of the book’s sequence of dramatic vignettes. Nonetheless, for its vividly drawn coverage of the American side of these pivotal events, the book is deservedly the nonfiction blockbuster of the season.

    Mr. Hornfischer is the author, most recently, of “The Fleet at Flood Tide: America at Total War in the Pacific, 1944-1945.”


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/countdown-1945-review-checkmate-in-the-pacic-11596664105
     
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  17. old scotty

    old scotty Junior Member


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    ol scotty's beloved grandfather, a WWI veteran, was a young engineer, and huge USC fan at the time. He worked on the crew that built that stadium....he and my dad were my two role models and idols.....

    He worked on the Rose Bowl as well, and made it to every Rose Bowl game USC played in until he died in 1963.
     
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