I Know Many Will Disagree...

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by zitorocks, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. I Know Many Will Disagree...
    zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    #1
    But if/when Helton gets dumped, I wouldn't object to hiring Donte as the HC with a super veteran OC and DC to support him. He has all of the tools we need because number one starts with recruiting. Number two starts with development. Number three is scheme. I believe he would make far better personnel decisions and ensure success.

    Convince me I'm wrong.
     
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  2. Trojack

    Trojack Junior Member


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    #2
    Why do you want a position coach with no head coaching experience to take over the program? I'd rather drop football.
     
  3. Ride Fly

    Ride Fly Junior Member


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    #3
    Louder with Crowder!
     
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  4. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    #4
    What qualities do you want in a HC? List them other than having won as a HC before. HC's should consist of competencies. If he has the competencies to do the job and do it well...why not? He connects with the players and their families...he's also able to convince 5* players to come play for Clay Helton...don't you think that alone qualifies him for the job? There have been plenty of position coaches who have taken over good programs and been successful. It's not an unusual occurrence.
     
  5. GoSC27!

    GoSC27! Points Member


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    #6
    Just because you are an awesome recruiter and position coach there is more to that in my opinion of the qualifications of a great head coach.
    I think these days the better coaches come with either an offensive or defensive identity. CPC had a defensive identity and he was smart to hire a qualified OC in Norm Chow.
    The great thing about CPC is he had other key attributes. He had a vision, merging Hollywood/Entertainment with football. He really exploited that and was way ahead of the times.
    He was also in very consistent and concise in his recruiting continually back filling position of needs, besides wants! Players were recruited to fit his defensive and offensive schemes. He did not over recruit in one specific position only to see them transfer out.
    CPC was also a great leader and motivator. He was always finding ways to motivate the kids including bringing in motivational speakers. The players seemed to enjoy the college experience as Matt Lienart can vouch for his time at USC.
    In short, CPC had great organizational/management/leadership skills. All the coaches were on the same page.
    Lastly the one skill I value most is his ability to manage the game, making adjustments as needed, specifically half time adjustments. Something that we don’t have right now.
    I don’t know if Donte has all of these skill sets yet and much of it comes with time and experience. You also sometimes have to fail before you can succeed. That is part of the learning process. Unfortunately for Donte, he is not going to learn much from Helton! Well then again passing out game balls to save your job and calling the president coach has served him well.
    Fight On!
     
  6. Trojack

    Trojack Junior Member


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    #7
    Then why not Tee Martin? He did all that while he was here. His beef was with Helton, not the school. We should be able to persuade him to come back and take Helton's job.
     
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  7. SCnAZ

    SCnAZ Junior Member


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    #8
    Because it’s happened before with great success! Why not give it a go?
     
  8. FightOn1992

    FightOn1992 Junior Member


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    #9
    Your question goes to the heart of the matter - what ARE the qualities you would want in a HC at USC.

    Here are mine:
    1. A track record of success as a Head Coach for at least a D1 school for 5+ years (other option is HC in the NFL for at least 2-3 years - yes this accounts for Pete but #5 below is just as important for me regarding Pete) - it is very different being the HC than a coord or position coach and not all can make the jump. Why gamble when we should be able to draw a good HC.
    a. USC should not have to do "train on the job" - we still have a very desirable job
    b. I want 5+ years as that means the HC had to go beyond inheriting a stacked team from a pvs coach (hence - e.g. no I would not want at this moment to take say Ryan Day of OSU - granted he would not leave - because I would want to see what he does on his own. This is my Larry Coker rule).
    c. 5+ years also shows the ability to adapt to new trends - not grab after gimmicks (see #4 below) but to adjust - Saban and Meyer were GREAT at this.

    2. Recruiting prowess is definitely desired - but like 3 below - can be managed if staff hires (eg Donte Williams

    3. An understanding but not a requirement is to "know" the West Coast - that can be achieved by the right hires in the coaching staff. He could build these relationships up if the staff has connections.

    4. I do NOT want a gimmick coach - e.g. I thought the moment ucla hired Chip that it was a disaster for them (I do admit when I am wrong so I don't mind noting when I am right;') - his offense has been completely adjusted to and now he is worthless. That is also why I am NOT on board with Harrell's Offense. When you are an elite power (See Bama, OSU, OU, and currently Clemson) - you don't need gimmicks - sure you have options and nuances - but at the end of the day you can either dominate or not if you have talent that you develop well.

    5. A track record of success throughout their career on the side of the ball that they cam upon through. E.g. this is the fundamental difference between Pete and Hackett. Pete's defenses and his position responsibilities were almost ALWAYS good (e.g. His Jets were markedly better on D in his one season, he built a great D as DC for 49ers, his Pats teams were good on D). Hackett hid behind big names (QB coach of Montana after 2 Sb wins), attractive sounding jobs (OC of Cowboys - when they absolutely sucked 86-88) and strong. units on other side of ball (KC Chiefs were elite on D and Hackett was lucky to be on that side).

    6. A track record of being able to develop talent. This is a MAJOR issue with Helton (among many others). Recruiting eventually goes in a toilet if you are not getting guys to the show and as high round draft picks. Ask yourself this right now - you are a 5 star recruit and every program in the country wants you. Sure you want a title but the biggest reason you likely choose BAMA is that they literally had 6 1st round picks in 2021. That sells with recruits (yes I know I just auditioned for Captain Obvious' replacement).

    Yes this could be construed as "in a perfect world" list but I still think it is the basis for selecting the right coach. We know that other jewel school Has are not possible and the NFL to CFB is rare. Still using the list above here are a few guys I would consider (yes this list looks like a lot of others):
    1. Luke Fickell - and since he had the OSU job for a year as an interim - he gets the pressure and knowing Bohn doesn't hurt. Contract situation is good.
    2. Matt Campbell - he ticks most boxes but his new contract is a financial issue that did not exist a few months ago.
    3. Bob Stoops - yes he. is out for > 4-5 years but ticks every other box
    4. Jack Del Rio - until last year Would have said NO but I am VERY impressed with what he did with WFT and look at his past differently.

    Fight ON!
     
  9. Cyrus

    Cyrus Junior Member


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    #10
    I’ll take him over Helton.
     
  10. trojan raul

    trojan raul Junior Member


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    #11
    You're wrong, Zito. No way. It would be a disaster. And SC cannot afford another disaster.
    1. Campbell
    2. Fickell
    3. Del Rio
    4. Someone off the radar.
     
  11. Cardinal&Gold

    Cardinal&Gold Junior Member


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    #12
    What? I'm not aware of any current POSITION ONLY COACH that had been offered a HC position to coach a Blue Blood Football program?

    We are talking getting back into the National Championship conversation. Right? This is my biggest fear 6 years of Clay Helton has lowered the bar, our standards and expectations. Fans are calling for anyone but Helton. When we should be looking for someone who can beat Nick Saban. He's the goal. He's the target.

    Getting back to my point:
    Let's take a look at some 2021 top 10 teams and see who's in charge: Look closely you will see a pattern. Every one had OC, DC or HC experience and most came from an elite Blue Blood school. Coincidence? I think not.

    Alabama - Nick Saban (Head Coach NFL more NC's than I can remember)
    Ohio State - Ryan Day ( Offensive Coordinator, with NFL coaching experience)
    Georgia - Kirby Smart (Defensive Coordinator @ Alabama for 7 years)
    Clemson -Dabo Swinney (Offensive Coordinator @ Clemson with 19 years in the Alabama and Clemson system)
    Oklahoma -Lincoln Riley ( Offensive Coordinator with 10 years experience as OC)
    Texas A&M - Jimbo Fisher (College Head Coaching experience and NC with Florida State)
    Florida -Dan Mullen ( NCAA Head coach and OC experience)
    Notre Dame - Brian Kelley ( 20 years NCAA coaching experience )
    Texas - Steve Sarkisian ( NCAA HC, OC and NC @ Alabama)

    You get the point not a single top 10 team hired a long shot guy with only Position Coaching experience. This is relevant because these guys are your competition.

    I'll even double down and give you some up an comers:

    Cincinnati Luke Fickell ( DC and NCAA head coaching experience, Urban Meyer tree)
    Iowa State Matt Campbell ( OC experience)
    Oregon Mario Cristobol (OC experience, Nick Saban Alabama connection)

    Same thing.

    The question is simple. Do you see USC as a Blue Blood program or not? Or is this a tier 2 football program that hires coaches on the cheap and installs them to learn on the job and hope for the best? The current trend is to hire experienced guys or top tier guys from elite programs like Alabama, Ohio State or Clemson. The following all came from just these 3 schools.

    Kirby Smart
    Dabo Swinney
    Ryan Day
    Luke Fickell
    Mario Cristobal
    Nick Saban
    Steve Sarkisian

    Dan Mullen and Jimbo Fisher have SEC ties.

    So I would say if you are going to gamble wouldn't it make more sense to gamble on a position coach from the SEC or Alabama, Clemson or Ohio State?


    I can give you one under the radar name right now that would be a 100% better prospect than D. Williams. He's already interviewed for the HC job at Kansas and it was rumored Sark @ Texas was interested in hiring him. If UGA wins a NC this season his stock is going to be off the charts like Dave Aranda @ LSU.


    Dan Lanning current DC @ Georgia:
    1. Elite Recruiter. As good if not better than Williams. I think he lands more ELITE 5 star guys. UGA has had a top 5 class 3 years in a row. They have the number 1 2022 class now. Dan is a big part of that. Currently the number one recruiter in college football rankings.
    2022 Football Recruiter Rankings (247sports.com)

    https://ugawire.usatoday.com/2021/03/27/georgia-dc-dan-lanning-now-cfbs-no-1-recruiter-for-2022/
    2. Georgia's defense is the strength of that team.
    3. Has been to a NC game.
    4. Also has an Alabama, Kirby Smart connection
    5. He's young and hungry. Like Luke Fickell.


    [​IMG]

    I see the next Luke Fickell here. A Defense first guy and elite recruiter who also has Pac 12 experience with Arizona. He's a perfect candidate.

    *BTW it's crazy to see Chris Hawkins, on the national top 10 recruiter list right next to Donte Williams and Marcus Freeman this. He's a natural.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
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  12. Cardinal&Gold

    Cardinal&Gold Junior Member


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    #13
    [​IMG]

    Tosh 2.0
    Hire me ( Tosh Lupoi) if all it takes is recruiting. I'm in. Plus I have DC experience and NFL experience. I know the Pac 12 and have an Alabama Connection. Cardinal&Gold likes that I'm a defensive coach first like Pete Carroll.

    This guy is one of the rare guys that has worked with both Nick Saban and currently Urban Meyer. That's a serious resume.
     
  13. heyrev

    heyrev Junior Member


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    #14
    I don't think the idea is necessarily wrong on its face--but at this time and place in USC's history, it's the wrong time to take such a gamble. They simply can't afford another miss. He's got upside, no doubt (young Black coach who recruits exceptionally well and connects with players), but even you'd have to admit, it could be a disaster. One more of those and it could be the fatal blow to national relevance.
     
  14. Hockey10

    Hockey10 Junior Member


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    #15
    No.
    As posted by many above by others. We need an experienced HC. This next hire has to generate excitement back to USC. We need someone who can win. They can hire a coach like DW as position coaches and recruiters. I don't want to and won't repeat what has already been posted. The simple answer is NO.
     
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  15. dbw021

    dbw021 Junior Member


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    #16
    Because USC can not afford another mistake at HFC at this time. USC needs a proven, successful HFC that can get the sinking program back afloat.
     
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  16. Canyon

    Canyon Junior Member


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    #17
    Nope. Donte is not ready to be USC's HC. DW is a Great AC, position coach and recruiter. I think we have learned a valuable lesson with C.Helton inexperience as a HC and terrible coaching style. Unwise to hire another inexperience AC as our HC. DW will make a very good HC one day, but should start at a small school, get his feet wet and gain valuable experience.

    2 Big Guns that would make USC top 5 football program, but it would cost too much. Don't think USC is willing to pay their market worth. 1. Jimbo Fisher, TX AM, 2. Ryan Day, Ohio St.

    Affordable and my 3 choices. They can be had, price wise. Fickell is my top choice, he would make USC relevant again and a top football program. But, Campbell and Satterfield would be X-lent HC's as well.

    1. Luke Fickell, Cincinnati
    2. Matt Campbell, Iowa St.
    3. Scott Satterfield, Louisville
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2021
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  17. SC93er

    SC93er Junior Member


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    #18
    Tee Martin was a great recruiter too. Does anyone see him as HC potential?

    Donte Williams may or may not be a good HC someday, but he should go the route of HC at a smaller program where he can prove himself. We need an experienced HC that is a proven winner like Fickell or Campbell. They would be my top two candidates...young, talented up-and-comers who are ready for the challenge of returning USC to national prominence.
     
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  18. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


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    #20
    Until or unless we know that Helton is leaving, it's too early to name a replacement. 2 key factors in any consideration are, what is USC willing to pay, and who will be available at that time? We may not be willing to pay enough to get a currently contracted successful coach. And other names could surface at such time that Helton is gonzo.
     
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