Could coach O have been successful at SC?

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by ACETrojan, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. Could coach O have been successful at SC?
    ACETrojan

    ACETrojan Junior Member


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    #1
    Just like almost everyone else I feel sickened that we missed out on keeping coach O and ended up with Helton instead but I have to wonder if he would have been as successful here as he has been at LSU. These past few months have proven how inept, cheap and overall incompetent out Administration and BOT is. The resources coach O has at LSU vs what SC offers are massive. Just in recruiting alone Our recruiting “staff” is anemic and has been exposed. So much needs to change at SC beyond Helton and it kills me that we (the fans) are the only ones that see it or are willing to recognize it.
    Anyway, here’s hoping Coach O wins it all on Monday.
     
       
  2. flyfishintrojan

    flyfishintrojan Junior Member


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    #2
    If anyone of us was capable of predicting the future, chances are we wouldn’t be on this site, we would own a private island and we would be telling USC what to do.
     
  3. in2nation

    in2nation Junior Member


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    #3
    I will start by stating that there are several respected posters on the board who are NOT Coach O fans, and I get their position.

    That being said, I have a few observations about the "what if ?" Coach O had been hired permanently.
    1. Coach O is now in his 3rd full year at LSU. He has Joe Burrow and Joe Brady, after recognizing the need, and making changes on offensive production.
    2. 2016 would have been CEO's 3rd full year had he been retained at USC, and he would have had Sam Darnold.
    3. My argument is that initially, CEO would have retained Helton and Tee, and would have closed the recruiting deal on Darnold.
    4. Also, CEO would not have waited to address the elements Swann critiqued Helton on after 5-7, and a CEO-coached 2016 USC team would have been better equipped than a Helton-coached team.
    5. You are invited to draw your own conclusions from there.

    Again, just a "what if ?", and I don't begrudge Coach O's success at LSU. He is clearly where he belongs and I am not pining for him. Just another chapter in the poor administration to which the university has been subjected. At this point, I hope we are just riding the buyout to diminish a little more... Fight on.
     
  4. AnArchitect

    AnArchitect Points Member


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    #4
    I don't disagree with what anyone's said above, but I don't think he would have been successful here. Simply because I sense that the internal workings of Heritage Hall have been intensely politicized (for the 20 years that I've been aware), and Coach O doesn't seem to care to play that game.

    With the other coaches, the players, and boosters? Sure, he'd be a grand slam as HBC. But not with the bean counters, paper pushers, and power grabbers in the admin. And that would lead to problems of other sorts that would prematurely expire his tenure.
     
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  5. J4SC75

    J4SC75 Junior Member


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    #5
    Agree with everything you have stated, as well as comments above. Reminder to all that Coach O left because he lost the job to Sark, not to Helton. Hiring and retaining Helton is another bad story. Given that we would have avoided all the drama with Sark had Coach O had been hired we probably would have been better off. That being said, at the time we were supposedly conducting a national search for an elite coach. I think if such a coach had come we wouldn't be discussing this. In fact, Coach O may have stayed. Personally, I was hoping for the elite coach over Coach O. My guess his fury was about being passed over by someone whose credentials were no better, and perhaps worse, than his own. The rest is history.

    I think it was a blessing for Coach O to get the job at LSU. While he was coaching at SC, his family was in Louisiana and he was hardly seeing them. He has had the chance for the win-win, great job and being with his family. He's already a winner in my book, no matter what happens on Monday.
     
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  6. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


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    #6
    Remind me: what was O's record at Mississippi?

    I love O as much as anyone, but some revisionist history happening here. He had to learn to be a HC on someone else's dime before he got lucky at LSU.
     
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  7. heyrev

    heyrev Junior Member


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    #7
    Good observations. However, I think you're missing a major key to Orgeron's current success that wouldn't exist in your scenario. By his own admission he changed dramatically as a coach AFTER he left USC. Absent those "revelations" from failure, where would he be at LSU? According to him, not as successful. The 2020 version we see today wouldn't exist for USC.
     
  8. GLYCERINE

    GLYCERINE Junior Member


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    #8
    What does success look like?
     
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  9. in2nation

    in2nation Junior Member


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    #9
    That's fair.

    I guess I just question the timing of his revelations. I think I remember him reflecting on how he would do things differently from Ole Miss while he was in the running for SC. I could be wrong, just ask my wife.
     
  10. reaLchaZZZy

    reaLchaZZZy Junior Member


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    #10
    Coach O can only be successful and win Natty's playing out of the best and toughest conference in College football.
    The SEC. He would have failed miserably in the weak Pac 12 especially with that sub-par Sam whatzit guy we had at Quarterback in 2016 & 2017.
     
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  11. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


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    #11
    [​IMG]

    Do y'all spend this much time wondering "what if" about former girlfriends? Does that change if they marry/date up?

    USC lacks the financial and for lack of a better word, spiritual commitment, to football success that LSU has. We no longer put a winning football program anywhere near the top of the list. Football is no longer a brand-leader at home, much less on a national basis. We have become the School of Scandals. Yes, SoS.

    Without the FULL support of the AD and BoT, Ed would NEVER have had the same success at USC and he didn't have either. He wouldn't have had the full control of the program and frankly, winning coaches do seem to have that where they are. Anyone telling Saban, Smart, Swinney, Orgeron, Cristobal no? Helton has basically said he has to have daddy Bohn bless his choices.
     
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  12. Tod78

    Tod78 Junior Member


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    #12
    The obvious answer is "maybe", but "maybe not".

    I'll dismiss all the statements about "Coach O would have done this", or "Coach O would have done that", and it would have worked out great, as 20/20 hindsight.

    What we do know is that Coach O hit the jackpot at LSU so it's possible he might have done the same here.

    On the other hand, there is a long history of coaches who looked great in one situation and fell apart in another. Look at Chip Kelly at Oregon vs. Chip Kelly at UCLA. Compare Harbaugh at Stanford with Harbaugh at Michigan. The list goes on and on.

    The point is, this is voodoo, not science. I'm not smart enough to figure out why the same coach with similar resources might be very successful in one situation and not successful at all in another situation. It looks like nobody else is smart enough to figure that out either. It's just this mystical chemistry that once in a while gives us John McKay or Pete Carroll, and once in a while gives us Paul Hackett.
     
  13. TommyT

    TommyT Junior Member


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    #13
    I’d like to think so.

    Coach O recognizes what needs to be fixed to be successful and then address’s it.

    One of the first things he talked about at LSU was the need for bigger, stronger defensive and offensive lineman and this year they had the best o-line in the country.

    He talked about qb play and getting the ball to their playmakers and his guy won the heisman.

    His enthusiasm, leadership and recruiting skills are there.


    I don’t know if the support and resources would be available at USC for him the way they seem to be at LSU.


    But it would have been great to have found out.
     
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  14. VegasPlayer

    VegasPlayer Junior Member


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    #14
    IMHO, CEO would have been a success at USC despite the BoT and Administration lack of support.

    He would have recruited and developed the best players in the area and built a fence around Southern California, plus cherry picked players from outside the area.
    Other Pac 12 teams wouldn't have signed players that would have gone to USC, thus making their team weaker.
    The D-linemen and O-linemen would have been dominate against the weak Pac 12 teams.
    The practices would have been hard and physical, iron sharpens iron thinking.

    A major plus is playing in the weak Pac 12 conference, think Clemson in the ACC.
     
  15. SCBIGTIME

    SCBIGTIME Junior Member


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    #15
    This thread reminds me of one of those 80's movies with the awkward/nerdy high school student who finally gets a makeover in their senior year and suddenly transform into the object of everyone's attention.

    As someone else already mentioned, Ed O didn't transform into what he is today while he was at USC. Mississippi Ed O was not ready for prime time and even USC interim HC Ed O wasn't quite there either. Then when you figure in who coach O could have gotten as assistant coaches compared to whom he got at LSU, it takes a huge leap of faith to think that coach O would have gotten the same quality staff here at USC.
     
  16. VM805

    VM805 Junior Member


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    #16
    Depends on what your definition of success is.
     
  17. 23 Blast on 3rd and 7

    23 Blast on 3rd and 7 Points Member


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    #17

    This might be the key out of everything. I would imagine simply maintaining the more physical football would lead to minimum two more wins a season, especially given how weak the Pac 12 South is. Just split with Stanford and Oregon at worst and you go to the CCG with at worst one conference loss, win that you should be 11-2 at worst , probably 12-1. A really bad Orgeron year at USC from 2016 forward would have been 9-4.
     
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  18. Cardinal&Gold

    Cardinal&Gold Junior Member


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    #18
    Ole miss is a stain on his record he admits that. He said he learned he can't do it by himself then he went on to post these numbers:

    6-2 as USC interim coach
    6-2 as LSU interim coach
    2017 9 wins
    2018 10 wins
    2019 14 wins
    And since has been one of the top 5 coaches in college football the last 3 years. His record against top 10 teams is better than Alabama's. That's 5 years in a row. To me that's a pattern of success. This is a what have you done for me lately game. Coaches usually get fired within 3 years if they don't produce. Except at USC.

    Would he have been successful at USC. I say yes. I know he would have made the right calls to fix any issues the team had.

    And there is no way in Hell
    He would let USC slip in recruiting the last 2 years like it has. That I can tell you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
  19. flyerz73

    flyerz73 Junior Member


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    #19
    USC fans would have lambasted him because of this (once he arrived at LSU, according to Wikipedia): "Orgeron also decided to shorten practices and spend more time in the film room in order to keep players fresh."
     
  20. SeattleTrojan

    SeattleTrojan Junior Member


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    #20
    I haven’t seen anyone post on this board that they’re not a fan of coach O. From what I’ve seen, everyone loved him, but many of us believed he had not shown enough to get the permanent job. His Ol Miss record was abysmal, and he lost to our two biggest rivals during his interim year. The UCLA loss was particularly bad.

    Now, if we had known Cutty Sark was going to be the alternative, we would have liked him to stay, but that’s complete hindsight.
     

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