A Real Quandary

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by MiketoBush61, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. A Real Quandary
    MiketoBush61

    MiketoBush61 Points Member


    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    99
    Feb 12, 2020
    #1
    Having been a USC fan since 1961 I've seen the best to the worst and everything in-between.

    My quandary is this: I always want the team to do well. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect mainly 10 & 9 win seasons, with the occasional "ugly 8."

    If next year's team wins 9-10 games and Helton remains the HC, my feeling is that record would be "fool's gold" that helps him maintain his job and I don't believe that he can maintain any level of consistency. But, I absolutely cannot root against the boys just so we can (hopefully) get a new HC.

    I'm serious. Guys do what they do. Even with Helton bringing in a new staff with some more youth, a big-time recruiter, a rising young DL coach who also happens to be Polynesian, and, a more praised than not DC, he's still the same guy.

    Can he really just sit back and continue to let Harrell be the "HC of the offense" and Orlando be the "HC of the defense," and change his spots (philosophy, such as it is)?

    The program is not in a good position with him as the HC. It's a fancy meal without much substance. The appetizers and "sides" are great, the main entree, not so much. Eventually, he is going to want to "do something." We saw how that worked out this year when in his words, he was going to stand back and let Harrell run the offense and he would take care of the discipline & fundamentals...hah! Nothing changed.

    Sigh! I don't hate Helton but the "Peter Principle" is in full bloom at USC with him, and, he needs to go for the program to grow and be what it can once again be...just sayin'...
     
       
  2. Cyrus

    Cyrus Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    4,237
    Likes Received:
    4,856
    Feb 12, 2020
    #2
    I will always root for the team regardless of how I feel about the HC, and hope the AD is smart enough to make the necessary changes even if the team finishes with a good record.
     
  3. VegasPlayer

    VegasPlayer Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    99
    Feb 12, 2020
    #3
    If the team does well this coming year, chances are both Harrell and Orlando will be approached by many teams to leave USC with huge increases in pay.

    The teams from the Big 10 and SEC can and are offering double the money the Pac 12 teams are for coaches.
    Look at Michigan State and what they just paid for a 5-7 head coach from Colorado ( Tucker)
     
    DaFireMedic, GoSC1 and LDIABootney like this.
  4. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,138
    Likes Received:
    8,094
    Feb 13, 2020
    #4
    This is why the foundation, the HC, needs to be the guy with the top tier coaching skills.
     
    ConquerorSC likes this.
  5. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,882
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Feb 13, 2020
    #5
    Yeah this is a problem for Gentleman Clay. He's not the kind of HC who can afford to lose top coaching staff each year like Nick Saban does. And because most in the industry understand that any success probably had little to do with Helton, teams will come after the assistants. They will know that whatever success there is, will be because of them.
     
  6. conquest4ever81

    conquest4ever81 Points Member


    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    543
    Feb 14, 2020
    #6
    download - 2019-12-17T065416.596.jpeg
    Winners never quit and quitters never win. Fight On!
     
  7. dbw021

    dbw021 Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    933
    Likes Received:
    1,052
    Feb 14, 2020
    #7
    I think you just articulated the quandary that many of us are facing this coming season. My hope is that the team has winning season but that they continue to be an Helton coached team. Other words, continue to struggle against inferior teams and just barely hang on for wins. But, that they will continue to struggle in recruiting because of Helton. That administration realizes that it is losing millions of dollars in revenue in lost ticket sales, donor support etc and that they will be forced to make a change.

    I really don't know where President Folt is coming from but I have to believe that Bohn, having been a former player and involved in football programs for many years, has to know that Helton isn't qualified to successfully run this program.

    I, like you, don't hate Helton. But, I firmly believe that he is in over his head and that he is not qualified to be an successful HFC at USC. I don't believe the program will ever be anything more that mediocre with Helton as HFC.
    So I hope they win 9 or 10 games but he still gets let go because he has lost the support of the players, former players, fans, alumni and big donors.
     
    jjg4sc likes this.
  8. Peete2Affholter

    Peete2Affholter Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,646
    Likes Received:
    1,616
    Feb 15, 2020
    #8
    The OP articulates very well what many of us feel.

    I never, ever, EVER root for USC to lose, even if we would theoretically get a new HC in the bargain. We saw that these past two years, particularly the end of 2018, when it seemed like a no-brainer that USC would send Helton packing.

    But stepping back, a lot of coaches are given a mulligan year, especially ones who have managed to win major bowl game and a conference championship. So, in retrospect, a coach who has a sub-.500 season on the heels of two highly successful ones, and who also doesn't have any real off-field drama, isn't a surprise that he is kept around.

    But I'm with you in that Helton puts us in eternal purgatory. He's like the NFL coach who constantly goes 8-8, and 9-7, good enough to get to the playoffs some years, but will never win the SB, nor will be bad enough to get fired and give the team the silver lining of a top draft pick.

    If Helton loses enough on his own, the new coach situation will take care of itself. In the meantime, I'll be rooting for SC (and thus for Helton) to win every game they play.

    Fight on! Beat the Tide!
     
    GLYCERINE and DaFireMedic like this.
  9. LoyalTrojan

    LoyalTrojan Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,762
    Likes Received:
    1,801
    Feb 15, 2020
    #9
    upload_2020-2-15_11-3-53.gif
    And you do what you love to do....
     
  10. J4SC75

    J4SC75 Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Feb 15, 2020
    #10
    We are witnessing a grand experiment - can you surround a mediocre head coach with talented assistant coaches and have a great football team? SC has opened up the purse, increased the pay of its assistants, and recruited some quality assistant coaches. Bohn has been able to make that happen. Clay was unable to instill discipline, but some of these new assistants will be able to do so. Expect much better execution on defense and the talent is there to make it happen. But can a team win 9-10 games with a mediocre head coach? I think Bohn is giving Helton all the support he can - fail with the added support and it's hasta la vista, baby. That being said, I think Bohn is betting that he can be on the positive side of the experiment - a competitive SC football team in spite of Clay. I think he wants to buy time with Clay's current contract - note that though he said nice things about Clay, there have been no contract extensions or promises that Clay will be there beyond the end of his contract when he extended multi-year offers to the new assistants.
     
  11. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,138
    Likes Received:
    8,094
    Feb 15, 2020
    #11
    I don’t like this particular experiment, it’s like building a house on sand.
     
    ConquerorSC likes this.
  12. ConquerorSC

    ConquerorSC Points Member


    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    2,129
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Feb 17, 2020
    #12
    USC’s coaching situation is like a top athlete who got a bad pacemaker instead of a healthy heart transplant: the healthy arms, legs, head, and torso are there, but the pacemaker and heart are weak and that dictates how much blood/energy the rest of the body and appendages get. If Helton stays, more muscles atrophy and more secondary surgeries and transplants are necessary, when they could’ve been prevented by bringing in real heart ♥️ in the first place.
     
  13. Boselli

    Boselli Junior Member

    WeAreSc Member
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    981
    Feb 17, 2020
    #13
    I don't know precisely what top tier coaching skills are.
     
  14. einibobo

    einibobo Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    39
    Feb 17, 2020
    #14
    I am like many of you, feeling this quandary. It be honest, even though I was so depressed when clueless was retain by swannie, I felt excitement and support for helton to succeed. Then came BYU and my eyes were opened to the fact we cannot win the Natty with him here. So I am going to take one posters comment that if we win BIG, our assistants will be poached, and helton will be exposed. The only problem is we have to wait for at least 2 more years! Quandary for sure!
     
    ConquerorSC likes this.
  15. AtownSC

    AtownSC Points Member


    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    354
    Feb 18, 2020
    #15
    Regarding the Peter Principle: Helton cannot be a successful HC, we know that much. But when was he a successful OC? He was average at Memphis and got brought on by Kiffin to SC- who was the real OC. Helton probably belongs as an assistant at a G5 school and in some incredible Forrest Gump kind of way became the HC of USC- and still is after 5 seasons.
     

Share This Page