Your beach open?

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by Troy70, Apr 25, 2020.

  1. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


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    I don't know who the ultimate enforcement agency is but today the OC Sheriff said that he has no plans for enforcement.
     
  2. Tod78

    Tod78 Junior Member


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    If you're a Trump fan stop reading now. It will just piss you off and I'm not talking to you.

    Every so often I need to remind myself that more often than not talking politics to the other side of the aisle is a fool's errand.

    It wasn't always this way. There used to be a more or less shared understanding of what the actual facts are. From there we could argue about what to do about it, but at least we started with the same basic facts.

    That's not true any more. You would have thought that the information age would mean that we are better informed about the real world than we used to be, but that's not the case. Instead the information age has allowed us to select only the news that tells us what we want to hear. That is an issue on both sides but it is especially true on the right.

    After World War 2 army psychologists tried to understand how it could be that average, middle class, church-going Lutheran boys could grow up in Germany to become guards in concentration camps, and really believe that they were doing the right thing. What they found was that there was a significant part of the population, not everybody, and not all conservatives, but a significant part, which the psychologists labeled as "authoritarian followers".

    The authoritarian followers were characterized by several things. Once they adopted a leader as an authority figure they were able to turn off that part of their brain that would let them think that the authority figure was wrong. If the authority figure said it's right then it's right, no matter what they learned in Sunday School. That's why conservatives can rail against Russia as the "evil empire" for 50 years and then turn on a dime because Putin is Trump's best friend.

    Authoritarian followers also were able to hold mutually inconsistent thoughts in their heads at the same time without any sense of cognitive dissonance. That's why conservatives can passionately believe that taxes are too high, at the same time they passionately believe that we need to spend more on defense, and at the same time passionately believe that we absolutely have to cut the deficit, without any sense of discomfort because those things are mutually inconsistent. In this context that explains why they will tell you that their personal freedom is so important that they absolutely have to go to the beach no matter who might die as a result of a disease being spread, and that thousands or millions of deaths are no big deal because "those people" aren't important, and then in the next breath pat themselves on the back as being "pro life" when it comes to a woman's decision whether to have a baby or not.

    Authoritarian follows are also absolutely immune to data that contradicts their world view. Anything at all that suggests they might be wrong is waived away as "fake news" or a government conspiracy. We've seen amazing mental gymnastics to rationalize the conclusion they want. A million doctors can all agree that we have to quarantine for now, and the million will be blown off because two guys in Bakersfield use crappy statistics to come up with the conclusion they want to believe is true.

    The last thing about authoritarian followers is that they are pretty much incurable. They can't be persuaded no matter how hard you try. All you can do is outvote them. That is why arguing with them on the internet is a fool's errand.
     
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  3. Peete2Affholter

    Peete2Affholter Junior Member


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    Then they should fight against that ticket like hell.
     
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  4. Peete2Affholter

    Peete2Affholter Junior Member


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    Oh boy, you've kicked a hornet's nest now!

    Well, authoritarian followers come in all flavors and stripes. Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro, et al - they also had otherwise average, compassionate folks do horrific things in their names.

    But I agree that arguing politics is a fool's errand, particularly in the way we try to "persuade" the other side by vituperation and slander. Yeah, calling me stupid and questioning my mother's profession will really turn me around to your point of view! Lol.
     
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  5. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    Wow are you projecting or what? Lol

    There are none so blind as those that refuse to see.
     
  6. IETrojanFan

    IETrojanFan Junior Member


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    You're blind if you don't see this all applies to liberals/the left/Democrats/whatever you want to call them, too.

    I could add, "It's why liberals back Newsom's anti-Constitutional actions no matter what, in the name of 'safety'. It's why liberals follow whatever new fear the MSM reports on. It's why liberals will completely ignore or minimize any sexual accusation against Biden after 4 years of trying to impeach Trump for exactly the same thing."

    And I could go on, and on, and on. But you get the point... or you don't because you're a liberal, and THAT'S the point.
     
  7. heyrev

    heyrev Junior Member


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    In what world did this ever happen?! With as much respect as I can muster (not much), let me say your lack of history knowledge is only outdone by your naivete.
     
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  8. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    Stop not sucking as a poster. I don’t want to change my opinion of you.
     
  9. Boselli

    Boselli Junior Member

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    The problem is they are now begining to see they may be voted out so they're taking their political off topic board to the streets (this street).
     
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  10. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


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    According to an article I just read, the
    Huntington Beach City Council held an emergency meeting and voted to try and obtain an injunction against Newsom's order regarding the beaches.

    Orange County Sheriff Don Barnes reportedly said his intention “is to not take enforcement action on this order.”
     
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  11. AMLTrojan

    AMLTrojan Junior Member


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    HBHS grad here, lived in HB my whole youth until I moved into Marks Hall freshman year. Based on personal experience, I would never mistake HB cops and city officials for libertarians, but I'd have been totally shocked if they didn't give a giant middle finger to the governor on this.
     
  12. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


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    My nephew was an Oiler baseball pitcher and my niece went there as well. I think the current mayor is a dud but the city attorney is excellent so I anticipate they will oppose this vociferously. They've managed to stave off becoming a sanctuary city and fought against the low income housing requirements. The police aren't interested in enforcing this and don't want to be told how to do their job.

    There is supposed to be a big protest there today. Police asked nicely if folks would stay away from the beach because they will be needed for crowd control.
     
  13. 13Perspective

    13Perspective Junior Member


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    The whole thing for me came down to managing capacity of a specific bottleneck (hospital ICUs and respirators) in order to prevent a large excessive death rate. We can debate (and I'm sure we will) whether the measures taken were overblown, but any reference to "over-blown" or "dramatically over-estimated" has to also account for the quarantine effect itself.

    Some people can't accept that we live in a world where 100% liberty is an impossibility. One person's liberty is another person's liberty depriver. It's a matter of making collective sacrifices for the greater good. That's why I'm not going to be waiving any snake flag bullshit or crying because my beach is still closed.
     
  14. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


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    Nobody is arguing for 100% liberty. At this point, liberties are being stripped for political reasons. There is no solid scientific evidence to support beach closures and there is no constitutional basis to support enforcement of it.

    It's called the Gadsden flag and it's hardly bullshit. If you choose to submit your civil rights at the door, be my guest. But don't expect me to go along with you. Government has to be kept in check. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
     
  15. AMLTrojan

    AMLTrojan Junior Member


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    I'm with Elon Musk on this one. He tweeted a great graph showing how dead wrong the projections have been about hospital capacity shortfalls. I was all fine with closing schools, recommending maximum telework, and encouraging people to stay home. But I'm NOT okay with the fascistic enforcement mechanisms being adopted in many states.
     
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  16. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    Some people can't accept that we live in a world where 100% safety is an impossibility. One person's mitigation is another person who's rights are violated.

    Again, it is not a sacrifice when its mandated. So I won't be mask shaming or demanding censorship on social media because people want to exercise their guaranteed rights in the face of oppressive govt.

    Your argument cuts both ways
     
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  17. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    The irony of school closures is kids are not getting this at all, and certainly not in a critical way. If a anything schools should be opened before anything else.
     
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  18. SGVFlip

    SGVFlip Points Member


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    Bravo.....
     
  19. 13Perspective

    13Perspective Junior Member


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  20. 13Perspective

    13Perspective Junior Member


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    There is enough data now to support more accurate estimates of spread and mortality rates. Those spread rates would apply to a given density of people at a beach or anywhere. If the leading disease control officials advising our state government are choosing to ignore the latest spread rate data, and are instead blowing the risks all out of proportion, then they should in due time be held accountable for incompetence on their jobs. I hear about "political motivations" but I also don't see the supporting evidence that the government is deliberately sabotaging us. If there is actual evidence, and not whiney anecdotal reasoning to support yet other political motivations, then I will be happily corrected.

    I already have a flag that represents liberty. Oh, and I will never allow myself to be your guest for anything, nor would I want you to go along with me for any reason.
     

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