"We see no point in wearing masks"

Discussion in 'MKJ Off-Topic' started by KeenObserver, Aug 4, 2020.

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  2. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    #2
    [​IMG]
    Shouldn't we all be?
     
  3. August West

    August West Points Member


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    Sweden got this thing right from the get go.
     
  4. ScoobyTrojan32

    ScoobyTrojan32 Junior Member


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    How do you think Italy would have done using Sweden's model?
     
  5. SoCal93

    SoCal93 Junior Member


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    Almost all Italy deaths were the elderly plus those with preexisting conditions. Same as Cuomo did in New York.
     
  6. SoCalN8tiv

    SoCalN8tiv Junior Member


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    Even Sweden doesn't think that...At the moment, we have set an example for the rest of the world on how not to deal with a deadly infectious disease.

    Like I've said before, we won't know for quite awhile but it may turn out that the US for the country that it is had the best results. There will be multiple best results for various countries but there absolutely will not be any gold standard country nonsense. That's not how this works. It's impossible and premature to make any definitive statements about this pandemic. When sucxx said he was calling it, he exposed himself like Bucky and Aimeedee and GaryB et al that none of them know what the fuck they are talking about. I shake my head when people draw conclusions about something that's had an ebb and flow for some reason. The so-called success story countries that " had it under control" are being hit hard again. Let's wait and see how this plays out over the next six months.

    Sweden hoped herd immunity would curb COVID-19. Don't do what we did. It's not working.
    Sweden's approach to COVID has led to death, grief and suffering. The only example we're setting is how not to deal with a deadly infectious disease.
    Sweden has often been considered a leader when it comes to global humanitarian issues, regarded as a beacon of light in areas such as accepting refugees and working against global warming. In the COVID-19 pandemic, Sweden has also created interest around the world by following its own path of using a “soft” approach — not locking down, introducing mostly voluntary restrictions and spurning the use of masks.

    This approach has been perceived as more liberal and has shown up in “Be Like Sweden” signs and chants at U.S. protests. Wherever measures have been lenient, though, death rates have peaked. In the United States, areas that are coming out of lockdown early are suffering, and we are seeing the same in other countries as well.

    The motives for the Swedish Public Health Agency's light-touch approach are somewhat of a mystery. Some other countries that initially used this strategy swiftly abandoned it as the death toll began to increase, opting instead for delayed lockdowns. But Sweden has been faithful to its approach.

    Why? Gaining herd immunity, where large numbers of the population (preferably younger) are infected and thereby develop immunity, has not been an official goal of the Swedish Public Health Agency. But it has said that immunity in the population could help suppress the spread of the disease, and some agency statements suggest it is the secret goal.

    An unnerving death rate
    Further evidence of this is that the agency insists on mandatory schooling for young children, the importance of testing has been played down for a long time, the agency refused to acknowledge the importance of asymptomatic spread of the virus (concerningly, it has encouraged those in households with COVID-infected individuals to go to work and school) and still refuses to recommend masks in public, despite the overwhelming evidence of their effectiveness.

    In addition, the stated goal of the Swedish authorities was always not to minimize the epidemic but rather slow it down, so that the health care system wouldn’t be overwhelmed.

    Several authorities, including the World Health Organization, have condemned herd immunity as a strategy. "It can lead to a very brutal arithmetic that does not put people and life and suffering at the center of that equation,” Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of WHO's Health Emergencies Program, said in May.

    With COVID-19, don’t only focus on death:Too many Americans are alive and in misery

    Regardless of whether herd immunity is a goal or a side effect of the Swedish strategy, how has it worked out? Not so well, according to the agency’s own test results. The proportion of Swedes carrying antibodies is estimated to be less than 10%, thus nowhere near herd immunity. Yet, the Swedish death rate is unnerving. Sweden has a death toll greater than the United States: 564 deaths per million inhabitants compared with 444, as of July 27.

    Sweden also has a death toll nearly five times greater than that of the other four Nordic countries combined — more than twice per million inhabitants. For a number of weeks, Sweden has been among the top in the world when it comes to reported deaths per capita. And despite this, the strategy in essence remains the same.

    Learn from Sweden's mistakes
    It is possible that the health agency actually believed that the Swedish approach was the most appropriate and sustainable one, and that the other countries, many of which went into lockdown, would do worse. Perhaps this, and not herd immunity, is the main reason the authorities are desperately clinging to their strategy. Or perhaps an unwillingness to admit early mistakes and take responsibility for thousands of unnecessary deaths plays into this resistance to change. Nevertheless, the result at this stage is unequivocal.

    Adopting the Swedish model:Coronavirus doesn't care about public opinion, and it still kills

    We do believe that Sweden can be used as a model, but not in the way it was thought of initially. It can instead serve as a control group and answer the question of how efficient the voluntary distancing and loose measures in Sweden are compared with lockdowns, aggressive testing, tracing and the use of masks.

    In Sweden, the strategy has led to death, grief and suffering. On top of that, there are no indications that the Swedish economy has fared better than in many other countries. At the moment, we have set an example for the rest of the world on how not to deal with a deadly infectious disease.


    In the end, this too shall pass and life will eventually return to normal. New medical treatments will come and improve the prognosis. Hopefully, there will be a vaccine. Stick it out until then. And don’t do it the Swedish way.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/07/21/coronavirus-swedish-herd-immunity-drove-up-death-toll-column/5472100002/
     
  7. CrownoftheValley

    CrownoftheValley Junior Member


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    that elderly being... 80+
     
  8. August West

    August West Points Member


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    Nearly all of Swedens early deaths were elderly. As were Italy’s. Lockdowns prolong the disease which increases deaths. What you don’t get is, death is going to happen regardless. The key is to shorten the timeframe....like Sweden.

    Italy has locked down earlier than anyone, and their death count per 1 million is higher than Sweden and USA
     
  9. August West

    August West Points Member


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    They accepted death was happening either way, and chose to shorten the pandemic as much as possible.
    So yea, their approach worked. They have herd immunity. Most of their deaths occurred early on to a poor approach with seniors.
     

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