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Discussion in 'Trojan Huddle' started by jiordone, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. travyav

    travyav Junior Member


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    Oct 9, 2018
    #21
    You always want solid coaching with top talent. If you can't get top talent, then you want solid coaching. SC continues to benefit from top talent, but suffered from mediocre to bad coaching/development.[/QUOTE]

    This is true. You always want great coaching. Great coaching can overcome a talent deficit, poor coaching loses games despite having the best talent.
     
  2. TrojanCampaign

    TrojanCampaign Junior Member


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    Oct 10, 2018
    #22
    That's not true. In 2016 alone they have seven 4* recruits.
     
  3. TrojanCampaign

    TrojanCampaign Junior Member


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    Oct 10, 2018
    #23
    U seen our recruiting classes bro?

    Nearly everyone one of our OL and DL recruits are 4 star recruits. There might be four guys who aren't one of them being Josh Fatu.
     
  4. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    Oct 10, 2018
    #24
    Or by class as well. There's a huge difference between 4/5* freshman/sophs and junior/senior/RS seniors.
     
  5. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    #25
    Not necessarily. Just because a coach can coach up underwhelming, lowly regarded players coming out of HS, does not mean he can coach up 4/5* primadonnas. What can a coach do with players who don't have a chip on their shoulder. It's really apples and oranges.
     
  6. TrojanCampaign

    TrojanCampaign Junior Member


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    Oct 11, 2018
    #26
    Can't say I agree with that.

    Maybe upperclassmen who were 3* level. They are usually college size but lack the statistics the 4/5* recruits have.

    But 0-2* recruits are usually undersized or have no experience. A 5'8 QB from Idaho is still going to be a 5'8 QB from Idaho in 3-4 years. Where someone like JT Daniels is going to be immediately ready.
     
  7. Jpltrojan

    Jpltrojan Junior Member


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    Oct 11, 2018
    #27
    Just a quick look at a program that struggles with recruiting 4 and 5 star players because they compete with ND, Michigan, tOSU, Penn St, etc. and SC.

    Wis. has zero 4* Olinemen. All starters are 3* athletes out of high school. Nearly all are from small Midwestern towns that aren't playing the nation's best talent. Yet they compete well with the other schools mentioned. Madison, WI is hardly a destination.

    Either they're talented and missed by the ranking services (unlikely or the other schools would be on them and the ranking services would adjust their star rating) or they have an Oline coach that teaches them what he needs from them and they respond successfully.

    To suggest the subpar performance is anything but coaching is simply ignorance. What's the difference between a 3* lineman and a 4* lineman? How many 4* lineman get outperformed regularly by 3* linemen? I'm guessing it happens but across the whole line? Year after year?

    SCs problems start and stop with the trenches. Until that's fixed SC will not be in any playoff contention.
     
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  8. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    Oct 11, 2018
    #28
    I was more talking about comparing 4/5* freshman and sophs with 4/5* juniors, seniors, and RS seniors. It's not all the same. If I have an older team of 4/5* players with a few years of experience, they would and should dominate a young team filled with 4/5* players. Just like there's a big difference between a player who's been in the NFL for five years as a first round pick versus one who just left college. There are MEN and BOYS. 18 year olds rarely look like MEN.
     
  9. RB4SC

    RB4SC Points Member


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    Oct 11, 2018
    #29
    Here's what's NOT measured in STARS:
    1. "Want to". The desire and willingness to push oneself to improve and get better EVERY Play, EVERY Day. In many cases the 4/5 Star players have NEVER had to develop "want to" because they, along with their reputation, have always been allowed to just play as they are.
    2. The "chip" factor. The "chip" factor is the attitude a "3-Star" often carries that pushes him to be better, in the long term, than many of his 4/5 Star competitors.
    3. "Mental Toughness". It takes an incredible amount of Mental Toughness to play football at the highest levels, even for 4/5 Star players. Often, it's the 3-Star or lower players who develop the necessary Mental Toughness to grow as needed in a program. Most 3-Star players aren't counting down the days until their "ready for the league" (4/5 Star players are usually thinking about leaving AFTER their 3rd year)...they're usually preparing themselves for the mental grind of a 4 or 5 year playing career for their university.
    For all the 4/5 Star players out there, there are many BETTER 3-Star players who end up at other schools and thereby develop into 4/5 Star quality collegiate players...so, I don't discount or feel to badly for the WSU (Leach) or Utah (Whittingham) or Boise State (Harsin) programs who "only" get the 3-Star players. Remember, Aaron Rodgers was a "No-Star" player in HS according to the recruiting services.

    Fight On, FOREVER, Fight On!

    RB4SC
     
  10. SouthbayTrojan91

    SouthbayTrojan91 Junior Member


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    Oct 11, 2018
    #30
    It is quite simple
    - USC is among the top recruiters in the nation
    - USC has majority 4/5 star recruits on both lines (and every other position)
    - having higher average star ratings = GOOD
    - USC is under performing its talent level

    Don't make excuses. We lack coaching. Coaching to elevate talent (no matter the star, you need to develop it) and coaching to create good schemes, solid practice plans, good game day decisions.

    We may not have the talent of Alabama but we sure as shit have more than every team we play this year. And in most games it won't even be close....yet somehow the score is.
     
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  11. CFB Fan

    CFB Fan Junior Member


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    Oct 12, 2018
    #31
    Yeah but the lovely PAC 12 refs took 7 points off the board with a phantom block in the back call during a punt return for a TD. That plus a questionable holding call on a 4th pass play that took away a 1st and goal literally cost Utah the game.
     
  12. RRDub

    RRDub Junior Member


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    Oct 12, 2018
    #32
    I would argue that we get less out of our talent than any other program in the country. Something is amiss. It seems to me that our practices prepare us to fail. Sounds like some players have voiced this opinion as well. If you don't hit in practice......you certainly will not hit in games.
     
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  13. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    Oct 12, 2018
    #33
    FSU and Florida disagree with that!

    Nobody has underachieved more than those two teams given the amount of talent they get year in and year out. Texas was in that category until this season, but they could just as easily be USC of 2016 too. A few good games does not mean the trend is in the right direction.
     
  14. SouthbayTrojan91

    SouthbayTrojan91 Junior Member


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    Oct 12, 2018
    #34
    Florida is 5-1 this season.
    But they really stunk it up after Urben Meyer left town.

    FSU had a pretty good run 2012 - 2016. Things went bad last year and they finished the season with a different coach and have a new coach this year who is definitely stinking it up (unless they win out).

    Common theme here? COACHING
     
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  15. wyotrojans

    wyotrojans Junior Member


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    Oct 12, 2018
    #35
    The good part of this picture is, you’re not winning the national championship unless you’re loaded with 4-5 Star talent.

    We have that, unfortunately we have 2 star coaching.
     
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  16. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Junior Member


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    Oct 13, 2018
    #36
    In this context an unexpected win would be a surprise, a second unexpected win would be a pattern and a third would definitely be a trend.
    Kinda like turning line grunts into Seals.....takes lots of coaching (Training)
     

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