Pac-12 players announce demands with #WeAreUnited

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by ErikMcKinney, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    5,485
    Likes Received:
    5,620
    Aug 4, 2020
    #61
    Yep--not giving players 50% of revenues is racist. Got it.
     
  2. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    5,485
    Likes Received:
    5,620
    Aug 4, 2020
    #62
    Is that how it works now? Not net profits, but revenue? They want a piece of the action. So? Employees get a "piece of the action" now? Without the athletic administration, there's no "$115M," How much do they get?

    Does the video guy get the same as, say, Slovis? No video guy, no $115M. How about the backup punter?

    Here's how it works: if you have a better opportunity with your skill set other than an education most folks dream about, training for your future, & all the other things we talk about, go for it. If you're Reggie Bush, someone who probably does generate extra revenue, maybe. But for the other 99 members of the team? USC gets that $115M no matter who's on the team. In that sense, they are interchangeable. Most employers don't give a "piece of the action" to someone who has a line of people waiting to take his/her spot.

    So they want to lecture us on what horrible, racist folks we are, want a "piece of the action..." and don't expect to get laughed at? Ah, the arrogance of a college student.

    One of the articles noted that there's no direct correlation between wins and revenue...so I guess it doesn't matter who's on the team. None of them are revenue-generators, particularly. Employees get a "piece of the action" if they somehow generate revenue more than anyone else.
     
    gubo&palanka, Trojack and jjg4sc like this.
  3. nvargas

    nvargas Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,270
    Likes Received:
    1,795
    Aug 4, 2020
    #63
    See marker 11:30 into the video:



    HBO's John Oliver speaking on the NCAA and school's financial situation regarding sports programs.
     
  4. nvargas

    nvargas Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,270
    Likes Received:
    1,795
    Aug 4, 2020
    #64
    By that logic, is the HC of a losing team a "Revenue Generator"? How about a coach like Baxter who was making over $1M annually? Are Bowl Commissioners revenue generators? Aren't they interchangeable also? What coach out there isn't interchangeable really? Is Clay a revenue generator?

    Larry Scott gets plenty pieces of action, and he loses $ as compared to his counterparts.

    Your proposition of "Love it or leave it" is the exact kinda bullshit people like you enjoy perpetuating. Fact is, quite a bit has changed in the NCAA landscape the last several years, and all for the better. Things like non-scholly player being allowed to partake in the the training table, eating meals w/ the scholly players. The transfer portal helped curb the practice of controlling players' future by coaches. The NCAA can no longer use players' likeness w/out compensation, schollies are now guaranteed for up to 6 yrs to ensure an academic opportunity. All of these changes came about due to players and others demanding change.

    So when people like you choose to use the "Love it or leave it" argument, I say "change it and love it"...whether you like it or not. And you can keep your C&G contribution...it's replaceable as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
    Peete2Affholter and Tod78 like this.
  5. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    5,485
    Likes Received:
    5,620
    Aug 4, 2020
    #65
    Ah, now you're getting it. The backup punter does not get a "piece of the action" just because he whines about it.

    You aren't going to get me to defend Helton's contract, but our current situation kinda proves the point. Dr. Folt is OK with 8-4 or 7-5, as long as she isn't embarrassed. With that in mind, how do players justify a "piece of the action," since we aren't willing to pay for a NC team? Players "deserve" more just because they want it? I'd need a better reason.

    You want to play around the margins--better food for those not getting $70K/year, sure. Giving away 50% of the revenues to players that are interchangeable? Uh, no.

    And if it does come down to which college can pay the biggest player salaries...USC can't compete in that arena. We're pikers among the top CFB programs in terms of revenue...and we have other sports to support.
     
  6. AMLTrojan

    AMLTrojan Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,217
    Likes Received:
    1,370
    Aug 4, 2020
    #66
    Assuming 300 scholarship athletes, that's $20M in cost right there. Not counting: capex costs (e.g. stadiums, facilities, etc.) and other opex costs (administrative, travel, marketing, coaches, trainers, medical staff, etc.). Sorry but not a lot of beans to share after that. Certainly not 50% of revenue's worth!
     
  7. nvargas

    nvargas Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,270
    Likes Received:
    1,795
    Aug 4, 2020
    #67
    Silly, specious arguments all. If Folt wasn't ok w/ Helton's contract, would we be saving $? We'd have to pay Helton to leave, pay another coach more than Helton made. So in that scenario, where does fiscal responsibility come to play? Helton gets his, coaches get theirs, Haden got his, Larry Scott gets his, RoseBowl comish gets his, Emmert gets his...and all of that is fine. When players start asking for some of the pie, that's a bridge too far, you ungrateful scum! You strike me as a coal mine owner? Perfect temperament and approach for it.
     
    Tod78 likes this.
  8. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    5,485
    Likes Received:
    5,620
    Aug 4, 2020
    #68
    Yep--getting a great education, training for the NFL and either a future FB career or a valuable degree = coal miner.

    The rest of your post is gibberish. I said that Folt was stuck with Helton, given that we weren't going to sign Urban or anyone else that would generate the money to pay off Helton & his assistants and cover the cost of an all new staff. Well, that plus the fact that she's happy with mediocrity.

    As for Haden, Swann, Scott...that has anything to do with paying a backup punter? Bezos does pretty well, but how much of that trickles down?

    As usual, we just disagree.
     
    gubo&palanka and Rodgarnay51 like this.
  9. Trojack

    Trojack Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    924
    Likes Received:
    789
    Aug 4, 2020
    #69
    OK, interesting point. We all know that law firms live and die on the work of their secretaries and paralegals (my wife is one so I know how much monetary value they bring to a firm) and in the bigger law firms, associate attorneys do most of the heavy lifting. Let's assume that a law firm specializing in mass torts brings in the $115M in revenue and let's further assume that the average legal secretary makes $55,000/year, the average paralegal makes $65,000/year, and the average associate attorney makes $100,000/year. Using this as a parallel to college sports, would you consider that salary structure fair?
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  10. nvargas

    nvargas Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,270
    Likes Received:
    1,795
    Aug 4, 2020
    #70
    A valuable degree, and you say that matter-of-factly? Players have to balance morning workouts, school, team/position meetings/workouts/practice/after practice reps/meals/travel and you think all that sets up well for a "great education"? In the case of schools like UNC/ND and even Stanford where players are steered into specific classes to prop their GPA"s to keep players eligible are signs of schools wanting to provide a "great education"? But I already know your response, this is the players' decision to not take advantage of the "Opportunity" that's available. They're welcome to take Differential Equations and Organic Chem if they so choose right? That's all that matters to maintain a clean conscience.

    Approx. 2% of CFB players make it to the NFL. My goodness, you must sell used cars?

    So if Folt doesn't agree w/ you that it's Urb or mediocrity, that makes your take so? You're so tied into the inner circle that you both know Urb was interested/available, and Folt was absolutely opposed to it? tOSU was an elite team that chose to stick w/ an Asst no-name coach after Urb left, they must be mediocre. LSU chose to promote SC's scraps in Orgeron and that means they're committed to winning? Michigan paid absolute top-dollar for Harbaugh, but they can't seem to beat tOSU ever and haven't won the Big 10 since '04....but you think you have it all figured out right?


    I don't recall anyone saying a backup punter should be paid, or how much. Where are you getting this from?
     
  11. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    5,485
    Likes Received:
    5,620
    Aug 4, 2020
    #71
    Aren't they asking for 50% of revenues? You saying that only some players get that?

    Remind me again: who put a gun to these kids' heads? Arrest that guy!

    If these kids had better opportunities than earning the equivalent of $70K/year, maybe you should invest in career counseling for them, so they can stop making such a bad choice as playing FB at USC?
     
  12. Tod78

    Tod78 Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    212
    Aug 4, 2020
    #72
    As I sit here in the corner office of my law firm.....

    I would suggest that the star quarterback is more like the big name litigation partner than a secretary.

    The point is that the legal secretary, paralegal, and associate all have the ability to argue that their contributions merit a bigger slice of the pie, and to move to another law firm if they don't come to an agreement they can all live with. What we are seeing is essentially the athletes trying to do the same thing.
     
  13. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    5,485
    Likes Received:
    5,620
    Aug 4, 2020
    #73
    The athletes are asking to be made partners. Would that fly at your office? And I'm assuming you pay the going rate to keep employees you want to keep?
     
    gubo&palanka likes this.
  14. 28thstreet

    28thstreet Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    33
    Aug 4, 2020
    #74
    It would fly at my firm if they were bringing in the clients (aka fans). People don't come to USC games to see the song girls. If the team sucks, guess what, there aren't many fans (i.e. and no revenue). See Paul Hacket and the empty stadium.

    The bottom line is that CFB and the universities got greedy and it was only a matter of time before someone created an alternative to CFB for these guys. If you want to know what CFB will look like in the future, just look at college basketball -- its pretty much dead now compared to the 90s and early 2000s. XFL or some other developmental league that pays the players a salary and provides them with an education (XFL has announced that its going to partner with local JCs to provide an education for athletes that sign with it and an opportunity to earn an AA degree) while also paying them a six figure salary was inevitable given the greed by the colleges. All of you saying "good riddance" etc., wont be watching CFB or saying that when the caliber of athlete in CFB is more comparable to a good high school game than a semi-pro game like it is now (see college basketball, college baseball, etc.).
     
  15. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    5,485
    Likes Received:
    5,620
    Aug 4, 2020
    #75
    So the solution is for the SEC to be even more dominant, but cutting the players in on a share of the action?

    Despite all these posts, no one has made the case for why players should get 50% of the action...other than because they asked for it...and that isn't taking into account that the USC players doing the asking have delivered a mediocre product. You pay what you need to fill the position.
     
    gubo&palanka likes this.
  16. Trojack

    Trojack Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    924
    Likes Received:
    789
    Aug 4, 2020
    #76
    And the athletes are certainly free to do the same thing. If their argument for revenue sharing is indeed unsuccessful (and it will be), they can always drop out of school, get a job that is hopefully equal to the value of the scholarship they are walking away from, find an entrepreneur to start a developmental league so they can stay in condition and maintain their skills, and try out for the NFL when the CBA allows them to do so.

    But you also didn't answer the question. Your original position is that fairness alone dictates that the player's worth is undervalued when compared to the revenue they bring in so they should automatically get more. However, when it comes to the worth of secretaries, paralegals, and associate attorneys to a law firm, it's more about arguing whether or not their contributions merit a bigger slice of the pie and failing that, having them take their employment elsewhere. Sounds like selective free enterprise to me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
    gubo&palanka likes this.
  17. Trojack

    Trojack Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    924
    Likes Received:
    789
    Aug 4, 2020
    #77
    If the players want 50% of the "action", that "action" should also include the deficits that most athletic departments face because none of the programs make money other than football and rarely, basketball. If they simply came off that idiotic notion, I would be willing to listen to everything else they have to say.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
    gubo&palanka likes this.
  18. USCSAE

    USCSAE Points Member


    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2019
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    100
    Aug 4, 2020
    #78
    70k a year for SC, I wish; would have pushed harder for my daughter to accept her spring admission. For tuition, food, housing, and stipend you are looking at 90-95k post tax. So 125k is a much more realistic number.

    But that number and everything else aside, if the athletes want to treat this like they are independent contractors, then they first need to figure a way to pay one player more than another, or this is just an excercise in futility. So, how much more would Reggie earn than Deuce? Rivers than Kirtman? Slovis than Drake?

    Do all 85 negotiate their own deals with the schools? What if a player is unhappy with his deal in his junior year - can he renegotiate? And if he gets more money can they reduce another athletes, or cut someone to make it work? Can some schools pay more than others? Is there a cap? Is it based on position?


    Being a scholarship athlete at a major D-1 school is such an amazing opportunity and experience, sadly kids no longer see it that way. And the horrible thing is, we did this to ourselves with the way we raised our children. Unearned self esteem with an underlying lack of character is a very scary thing, and we are seeing it play out.

    Fight On!
     
  19. heyrev

    heyrev Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,571
    Likes Received:
    1,695
    Aug 4, 2020
    #79
    Do people say "Drop the mic" anymore? If so, apply it here.
     
    gubo&palanka likes this.
  20. AMLTrojan

    AMLTrojan Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,217
    Likes Received:
    1,370
    Aug 4, 2020
    #80
    The sad thing is, the NCAA had been public enemy #1 on this board for, oh, at least the past decade or so. Most of us are sympathetic to killing off the hypocritical NCAA and letting the stars earn a few extra bucks on their likeness.

    But leave it to these smart athletes to tie their interests to BLM and, ahem, *equality*, make ludicrously unreasonable demands, and as a result alienate the bulk of their fans, supporters, and allies. Nice job, kids!
     
    gubo&palanka likes this.

Share This Page