Pac-12 player group threatens to opt out, makes list of demands on injustice, safety

Discussion in 'MKJ Off-Topic' started by LaissezFaire28thStUSC, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. AMLTrojan

    AMLTrojan Junior Member


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    #61
    Y'all need to study the Pareto principle. It applies to college athletics as well.

    -20% of the athletes are responsible for 80% of the income
    -20% of colleges take 80% of that income

    This effort is a whinge from 20% of 20% (that's 4% overall, if you know math) demanding rights to 50% of the revenue... in the name of (wait for it):

    "Equality"

    HAHAHAHA
     
  2. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


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    #62
    Basic bell curve.
     
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  3. LaissezFaire28thStUSC

    LaissezFaire28thStUSC Junior Member


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    #63
    Actually, Field and Loge $3.50, Reserved $2.50, Top Deck $1.50, through 1974. That was long after they retired.
     
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  4. GaryB

    GaryB Junior Member


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    #64
    Nice effort!

    Question: Do you go through the expenses? When it states "school administrative expenses" I wonder what that means? As example, Michigan's Football team generated $122 million in revenue and $75 million in profits. The basketball team netted $3.9 million. If you go down the list of sports, how much does it cost to operate a baseball team, golf, etc? Yet, Michigan lost money. How?

    We can start with simple costs such as the scholarship expense. The expense is valued at the price of full admission. Thus, if full admission costs $50k a year, all athletes are expensed at that rate. I doubt seriously if the amount represents the margin expense of one additional student/athlete.

    In fact, we have no idea what is included on the expense side; but, it seems to be close to the amount of revenue each year. This fact suggests that paying athletes under the current revenue structure would not be an issue.
     
  5. LaissezFaire28thStUSC

    LaissezFaire28thStUSC Junior Member


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    #65
    I now see why so many people on this board view discussing thing with you as a waste of time.

    Players can be "heard" on their own time. They have every right to speak up WHEN THEY'RE NOT ON MY TIME WHEN I BUY A TICKET TO WATCH THEM. Employees can't spout off at work either. They can on their own time. The secretary that answers the phone at a business doesn't advocate who you should vote for. You're not calling for that. You're calling for customer service, a replacement part or to check on an order.

    Football is not a religion. It's a not so subtle swipe at Southerners. But liberalism today is a cult.

    You failed to address my point. Who you "miss" is irrelevant. But if lots of consumers tune out and stop buying, they'll all be missed.
     
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  6. LaissezFaire28thStUSC

    LaissezFaire28thStUSC Junior Member


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    #66
    This is false and foolish. Maybe you're a limousine liberal and $60,00-$80,000 in goodies a year is "exploitation" to you? If so you're way out of touch. Should they just go get a minimum wage job and not go to college so they won't be exploited?

    I've asked you this before, without a response: Did you really go to USC?

    ATHLETE PRIVILEGE has been well known for decades. Maybe you missed that while you were marching with the hippies or the Sandinistas? I remember walking by the big lecture hall in Salvatori and seeing the printed lists near the door that USC used to have during the first week of class. One of our basketball player's names was on the class list and someone scribbled next to his name: "BASKETBALL PLAYERS DON'T HAVE TO GO TO CLASS." Everyone knew that athletes had different rules than the rest of us, then and now.

    There is plenty of information available about players with degrees that never went to class and graduated while still illiterate. Chuck Muncie from Cal and Billy Don Jackson from UCLA are just two of many examples.

    My mother was a elementary school teachers (also a USC grad) and taught night literacy classes in LA. She had players from EVERY major conference with college degrees that wanted to learn to read as adults.

    There are lots of athletes that take advantage of the free education that their talent and ability earned them that end up being the first college graduate in their family. That gives those fortunate ones upward mobility since most college athletes don't play professional sports. That's opportunity, not exploitation.
     
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  7. LaissezFaire28thStUSC

    LaissezFaire28thStUSC Junior Member


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    #67
    But as a self-identified economist, you would recognize that supply and demand analysis would show that colleges don't have to pay athletes because of excess demand for athletic scholarship compared to the supply of them. Title IX and the 85 scholarship limits have created artificial restrictions on supply.
     
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  8. aimeedee

    aimeedee Points Member


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    #68
    Well, NO ONE is playing at the moment, yet here we are discussing the issue. It seems to me they've leveraged the issue quite effectively.

    Oh puhleeze. It isn't a novel idea to refer to football as a religion, and that has nothing to do with Southerners, exclusively.

    https://ussporthistory.com/2018/09/03/football-is-the-new-religion-in-america/#_ftn14


    https://medium.com/@asphlex7/is-american-football-a-religion-revised-and-republished-from-11-4-2018-and-2-2-2019-aa7d0580551

    https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/9/27/16308792/football-america-religion-nfl-protests-powerful


    https://divinity.uchicago.edu/sightings/articles/football-religion

    Now, this article does refer to the South, in particular, but it certainly isn't framed as a "swipe," but a self-identified pride:
    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1875948-college-football-the-pride-and-joy-of-the-south

    And, of course the Babylon Bee is parody, but parody is a mirror to the truth:
    https://babylonbee.com/news/college-football-now-nations-largest-religion

    No, you fail to understand my point. When I say you won't be missed, I am not speaking of myself. I am saying, the industry of college football won't miss you. Yeah, a few really wealthy alumni donors might be missed. But the bulk of a university's athletic revenue comes from television rights, sponsors, merchandise, etc. Does home attendance help? Sure. But it isn't the bread and butter of revenue. And, to the extent that your purchase of a ticket matters, you will be insignificant because, as I said, football is a religion. You may place your contempt for protests ahead of your enjoyment of the game, but most fans will not. As a matter of fact, I'm guessing most people crave a new football season more than ever. We are desperate for normalcy and a diversion from the pandemic. So you can walk away and harumph with your arms crossed, but the fans will continue to embrace the sport. The sport won't miss you. Boycotts rarely work.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
  9. LaissezFaire28thStUSC

    LaissezFaire28thStUSC Junior Member


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    #69
    We have reached an impasse.

    I just posted an article about sports ratings being down. Your claims about demand for sports no matter how poorly the players are behaving isn't realistic and isn't based on data. Remember, there are no fans in the stands. Just wait until accountability happens. I might consider buying an NFL ticket with a group of friends near the bench to taunt and ridicule them for 3 hours. Don't be surprised with insulting fan chants. The players might be shocked at the reception they get in public too. It won't all be fawning and adoring like the past.

    Your dimisisve attitude about the destruction of the maul-generational character of USC and the alienation of fans and donors nationwide is also short sided. The common application process and a flood of foreign money and kids of communist China party elite and technology theives has resulted in more demand applications. Foolishly, USC and other schools who cater to this insulting player behavior are going to erode that loyalty that built for decades. At some point, Republicans will take over the whole government and shut down the foreign student crowd out of US citizens at our colleges because the people will demand it. But when alumni have been alienated by the regular insulting handed out by the Folt gang, their kids will go elsewhere. That brain drain isn't going to help in the long run.

    Expect colleges like Liberty and Hillsdale to grow and thrive as parents wise up and won't pay for their kids and grandchildren to be brainwashed by communist indoctrination camps masquerading as schools. The market will adjust to changing conditions. It always does.
     
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  10. August West

    August West Points Member


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    #70
    As I stated before, we have a large percentage of a small group that preach equal rights, but demand special rights.
     
  11. SLCTrojan

    SLCTrojan Junior Member


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    #71
    A few thoughts.

    1 - These discussions always blend the numbers, and just focus on revenue. Are athletes who are Demanding 50% of revenue also volunteering to cover 50% of costs if they're in money losing sports, or play for money losing schools?

    2 - My daughter rowed for Ohio State. We, as a family, were desperately hoping she would get some sort of scholarship. Why do you think that is? Were we that eager to see her exploited? Or was it that we were hoping her sport would help cover some of the exorbitant cost of education? If it's the latter, then this is clearly a beneficial relationship to the athlete.

    3 - When I was coaching basketball in Compton, there was a local legend street baller (don't remember his name, and I never actually saw him play). 6-6, fast, long, athletic. Everyone thought he had pro potential, except that he couldn't academically qualify to get into college. As a result, he was broke and depressed (full disclosure, he should have gotten over himself and gotten a job, but that's just me). Everyone said if he had gotten into college, even if he didn't go pro, he would have made something out of himself. At least to him, a free college degree would have been of benefit. Again, clearly a beneficial relationship to the athlete.

    4 - College teams. Why do you love a given college team? Is it because of the players, or because of your loyalty to the college. It's got to be the college, or you'd change loyalties as the talent ebbs and flows. I root for USC because I went to school there. So what does that mean? If you took the top, say, 200 players out of College, you wouldn't impact the ratings.

    5 - Of course athletes are entertainers. It's baffling to me that this is even a discussion. Again, easy to prove using basketball. Men's basketball is fast paced and athletic. Women's basketball is fundamental and intelligent. People show up to watch Men's basketball. Women's ball gets much lower ratings. I prefer the women's game - but they guys are more fun to watch. They are also, of course, people - just like actors and YouTube stars and musicians (who are also idolized in our society).

    6 - GaryB. So, some back of the napkin math. There are about 750,000 unpaid internships each year in the United States. Average starting salary for a College grad is $51K. Let's say an intern is worth 70% of a grad. And let's say internships average 4 months. That would make unpaid internships about a $8.9 Billion industry. Assuming companies turn a profit on work the Interns do, that number goes way up. Just sayin'.

    -SLC
     
  12. 901 Club

    901 Club Junior Member

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    #72
    Unpaid interns?

    Where did the thread take that turn?

    My ears perked up because it's a big issue in the "entertainment industry" here in L.A.

    As to that,
    • Unpaid internships are legal if the intern is the "primary beneficiary" of the arrangement. This is determined by the seven-point Primary Beneficiary Test.
    • If an employer is the primary beneficiary, the intern is considered an employee under the Fair Labor Standards Act and entitled to minimum wage.
    • Some states have additional requirements of unpaid internships, such as affiliation with academic institutions.
     
  13. aimeedee

    aimeedee Points Member


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    #73
    Fair enough

    Yeah, I saw the article. That was weak. One report comparing day one of opening day baseball with day two is hardly a conclusive argument.
    As long as they have your money. LOL!

    Annnnnd here we go with the xenophobia. Republicans had control of the whole government from 2017-2019. You had your chance to run them thar foreigners out.

    Free market is what it is all about. Thanks for sending your kids elsewhere. It makes it easier for my kid to get in. And maybe the competition will help him nab a better scholarship. Fight on!
     
  14. Kindred

    Kindred Junior Member


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    #74
    You are really a dim wit. The players are being paid in the form of a free education, and a platform upon which they can show case their skills in an attempt to be drafted into the NFL where they will, wait for it.............be PAID to ENTERTAIN! So when they are on the football field, yes they are nothing more than entertainers for me, as I did not spend any money to go watch them study, but rather to perform on the field of competition. I know you will not like that answer and you will use some bullshit logic to try and paint this as a selfish response, but when was the last time you went to the school and paid a teacher to get into a class room just so you could watch the guys on the team learn about basic math?

    So now that we have the fact that they ARE ENTERTAINERS out of the way, we all know and understand that many of them would never even go to the school if not for their ability to entertain. While telling a woman to shut up and make you a sandwich may be offensive, the reality is that you analogy is lame. But since you want to use it, it is the players that are telling the schools to shut up and meet their demands for a sandwich. The players are threatening to not play for the schools. The schools the athletes are not paying to attend because the schools value their athletic ability to the point that they are covering their tuition for the Qui Pro Quo of them representing the school on the filed of athletics. The schools can make a profit off of their entertainment abilities and enable many others to get scholarships too. The fact that they are threatening to boycott is a violation of the agreement that they represent the school in exchange for their free education. No where in the scholarship offer is there a clause that says they can decide not to play and make demands. It follows that the school should also have the right to cut the players and pull their rides if they decide they are going to make demands. That is life! Just like in life, if a woman or a man stops having sex with their spouse, how long is the spouse supposed to wait around to have sex? How soon before they find someone else to have sex with. This may come as a shock but if a woman decides to make demands on her husband or cut him off from sex if he doesn't't meet them, the man is justified to leave her, just as the school is justified to pull a scholarship.
     
  15. Kindred

    Kindred Junior Member


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    #75
    SO, where do you suppose JT Daniels will be playing next year? You are SO ignorant it hurts!
     
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  16. Kindred

    Kindred Junior Member


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    #76
    You can't be serious? Are you really trying to say that a kid not deserving to academically enroll at USC but gets in on an athletic scholarship, and subsequently loses the scholarship due to him violating the terms of the deal is now an abortion issue?
     
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  17. aimeedee

    aimeedee Points Member


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    #77
    That is not a "payment." If that were a payment they would be considered professionals. USC gives a "free education" to students who aren't athletes and either earn a scholarship or qualify for aid with no cost to the family.
    Only 3.8% of draft eligible Div 1 college football players were drafted in 2019.
    They may be nothing more than entertainers for you, but I consider them part of the Trojan Family. It is sad that they are of no interest to you, but for their ability to entertain you.

    Precisely. These athletes (along with the foreign students Laissez wants kicked out) are the ones that help make it possible for my kids to afford to attend USC. So tell me, again, why they are just entertainers?
    Of course, they would have the right to do that. But the universities know that the athletes bring far more to the school than what they are given in scholarships, so the athletes have the upper hand.
    Well, sure if your view of marriage is nothing but a transactional relationship for sex. Some people actually believe that a marriage is built on love, not sex. You seem to view people as objects to use, rather than human beings to respect.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
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  18. aimeedee

    aimeedee Points Member


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    #78
    The fact that Daniels entered the portal is supposed to prove your point? A couple of athletes transfer in order to be able to play and that is supposed to be proof of no loyalty? How many athletes are not transferring? I don't know of any Trojan who is cursing Daniels. We wish him well and root for him. That is how we treat family.
     
  19. aimeedee

    aimeedee Points Member


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    #79
    No, I'm saying being pro-life is more than just opposing abortion. Pro-life is about valuing humanity from conception to natural death. And when you reduce a human being to nothing more than an entertainer, you are devaluing their humanity, much as a man who refers to a woman as a piece of @ss devalues her humanity. People should not be treated as mere objects for your pleasure.
     
  20. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    #80
    Kindred, remember calling people vile and cultists devalues their humanity. Just saying.
     

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