OT but not politics. lol Any runners on this board? advice...

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by KeenObserver, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. OT but not politics. lol Any runners on this board? advice...
    KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    #1
    Over the past couple of months I've added running to my exercise regimen. I was never big into cardio unless it was playing a sport, but without my regular basketball game, I needed a way to raise my heart rate and burn fat.

    I'm 52 now and lost 20 pounds since March 12 when I started keeping track of the scale and my formulating my diet and exercise program. At first I mapped out a small route around the parameter of my village which is a hilly 1.1 miles. Then as I got used to that I added some additional parts the run getting up to 1.8 miles, then 2.0 then 2.5, 3.1 and today I finished 4 miles. My pace remains the same at about 9 mpm.

    So here is my question, when you start hitting another peak do you add distance or do you run a faster pace; or a combination? My goal right now is fat burning. I have 10 more pounds to get to my targeted goal of 165.

    As an add I also have been doing reasonably intensive weight training and hitting the heavy bag on alternating days when I don't run.

    Thanks in advance.
     
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  2. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


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  3. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    I wish there was a track I could use on occasion.
     
  4. in2nation

    in2nation Junior Member


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    Hey Keen, not an expert at all, just a novice runner who’s been at it a little longer. I’m up to 8 miles now, and my best pace is only about 9 mpm. I have experimented with both increasing pace and increasing distance, and I’ve had the best results with increasing distance.

    I’ve been to a lot of running sites for nutrition, pace and route advice, just like I come to this board to find out the one, agreed upon way to enjoy and support Trojan football. (sorry had to add that)

    The reason I choose increasing distance instead of pace is due to fat-burning. I find that longer distance equals longer elapsed time in rigorous activity. Increasing pace is more of an athletic ability increaser.

    I haven’t really lost a lot of weight, mainly due to the fact that my family consists of mainly short chubby dudes, but I have firmed up quite a bit, and my wind and endurance are way up. I’m also 51, so I probably share a lot of the same aches, lol.

    That’s about the limit of my advice, but the most important thing this fellow Trojan can tell you is, don’t stop. Fight on!
     
  5. CrownoftheValley

    CrownoftheValley Junior Member


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    Congrats on the weight loss success... you’re getting closer to me. I’ll be fine once I get back home and start back in the gym and get some muscle tone and mass back. My goal is to get back up to 165 by football season. It shouldn’t be too hard at 6’1”.
     
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  6. Trojan Forever

    Trojan Forever Points Member


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    Keen:
    You are to be commended. Not only for getting into running, but doing it in a sustainable fashion. One risk when you begin a running program is that you step up the mileage too quickly. The result is often injury. So your rate of increase sounds good.
    Next, as to how to stretch further, you can either increase the mileage in a gradual fashion as you have been doing and/or mix in some speed work (faster pace). Keep in mind that if you increase your intensity, you need to do it gradually so as to minimize injury risk. The track is best because you know distances and pace exactly, but the same can be accomplished on the road. Warm-up with some slower pace (or your normal longer distance pace), then you can use what used to be called fartleks. That is where you just pick a distance, say to the third telephone pole and run faster to that point (not all out sprint), just a faster pace (say 8 mpm compared to your normal 9 mpm). When you reach your target, you slow down to a recovery pace (a little slower than your normal 9 mpm pace) for an equal distance, then pick it up again to a new target. The distances can vary, but the idea is to have a recovery distance similar to the distance that you accelerated..
    I started running at 37 and am still going (alot slower) at 75.
    Contact me offline, if you would like more advice.
    Good luck.
     
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  7. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    That you both very much.

    I've actually not hated this as much as I thought lol. I look forward to my run. My other question is run on fast or after a digested meal. I've been running in the mornings before I eat anything and I dont feel any energy drop off or lag. In fact I've read it gets into burning fat more quickly but for some high performing athletes it has an adverse effect on overall performance.

    One idea I've had is to add some flat distance to my next run. My four mile course has some decent inclines and declines. Not radical but enough to know you're on a hill. lol
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
  8. Cyrus

    Cyrus Junior Member


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    Congrats on the weight loss. Clay Helton will be contacting you soon about a potential walk on. What position can you play? Maybe kicker since you are a big soccer fan. What is the 40 time?
     
  9. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    #9
    In minutes?
     
  10. SoCalN8tiv

    SoCalN8tiv Junior Member


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    You don't need a track. All you need to do is run intervals along your planned course you've measured out with your smart phone or with Google maps where you can measure out your course. Because you're running for distance then you're mainly working the slow twitch muscle fibers. That's fine for aerobic training but you'll never improve your mile pace or improve fat burning unless you are doing intervals. Intervals is the key to everything. Go one minute fast and two minutes slow but you have to push. The interval distance is up to you and what your body can handle. Even better up a moderate hill with a gradual % grade. Never attempt a steep hill, you'll likely blow something out. Small and gradual is good where your achilles tendon and plantar fascia aren't being strained.

    You'll immediately notice sore muscles in about two days. That's because you will have worked your fast twitch fibers and all the muscles and every antagonistic muscle. This will subside in intensity over time after running intervals regularly Remember, soreness is because your body is actually having a histamine reaction due to fluid leakage into the interstitial space around your muscles. This is normal and proves the old adage of breaking down muscle and building it back up. No, soreness it's not due to lactic acid. All lactic acid will eventually flush out of your system with proper hydration in a few hours.

    At 52 and with a good foundation of aerobic training you can improve your pace by at least 2 minutes per mile down to 7 minutes, easily. Work on your flexibility but don't overstretch at your age. One never wants to aggravate old muscle fibers. Eat plenty of proteins for muscle recovery. Amino acids build and repair muscle fibers. I don't recommend anyone over 40 taking up running as a form of exercise. The knees and joints will suffer over time and eventually the joints will have decreased synovial lubrication and bone to bone friction resulting from that - it will happen. Orthopedists will love you - many a yacht and country club memberships were paid for by bad bones and joints of weekend warriors thinking they were spring chickens after 40. Mental relaxation before sleep is conducive to having a good sleep. Maybe incorporate some progressive muscle relaxation from your toes to your head of tensing and relaxing muscles and muscle groups to help with that so you can recover after each workout. Rest rest rest. Don't forget to take establish your resting heart rate and target heart rate baselines to see improvement, if any.

    Running is harsh, instead, take up swimming or fast paced walking. Stay with your weight training but try doing more body weight training too. It's safer than using free weights for strength training for a 52-year-old. You'll get the same health results but without the wear and tear. Lastly, remember you're training for health, not for Olympic competition so rest when you're tired. Let your body recover. You'll see how much better your program will give you results after a good rest without having unnecessary discomfort or, god forbid, a catastrophic injury like an Achilles rupture.

    Good health to you
     
  11. Trojan Forever

    Trojan Forever Points Member


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    Another idea is to find a friend, who is about the same level and would like to run with you. If you do this, you will find that you often engage in interesting conversation and the miles just pass quickly without always thinking about how tired you may feel.
     
  12. AMLTrojan

    AMLTrojan Junior Member


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    At the end of the day, weight loss comes down to calories in vs. calories out. Therefore, manage a flat intake (e.g. eat proteins and fats so you feel more full, refrain from simple carbs, and stick to complex carbs mainly for e.g. the night before your long runs). Then, extend outtake: run/swim/lift or otherwise exercise in a manner that increases caloric burn.

    I grew up as a runner and have a natural runner's physique, but I'm with SoCal -- don't ignore the siren song of age and find other methods that don't wear on your past-50 bones and joints. I do think you need some impact exercise, but don't overdo it. I'd say run for 15-20 minutes max to warm up the muscles and lungs, then switch to circuit training, biking, or other aerobic/interval training.
     
  13. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    Thanks for the reply. Weight training is second nature to me. I've used weights in some capacity since HS. Obviously on and off, but I've done both body building routines and powerlifting routines throughout my life. God bless, but I'v never been injured and know my capacity and form. In that, my regard to approach is this -- if I cant handle the weight I don't attempt it. If I need a spot I don't lift it. On that note, for the last 20 years my philosophy has been no belts, no wraps. Lowest common denominator. If a lower muscle, joint or connective tissue is stressed, then weight is too heavy.

    I guess I've been blessed (and cursed depending on situation) as somebody that has been long in development. I crapped out in HS sports because I was too small and underdeveloped compared to my peers. I lost promotions in my early career because I looked "too young". In that I don't feel 52; and by no means am I trying to recapture youth. I know my limitations and play firmly within them. Before this Covid lockdown crap, I had a regular indoor full court BB game for the last three years. My offensive game has gone to shit but I play both sides aggressively, run the floor and still lock down guys on D ( only if they don't pull up and shoot over me. lol--at my age I have to cheat on D)

    That being said, I am glad other that some bursitis in my right shoulder, I have never suffered a major injury and enjoy the luxury of fully functional knees, back and joints. I do not take any of that for granted. However I'm aware that at my age there are silent lurkers. like the aforementioned achilles tendon and hamstring injuries.

    I really appreciate you guys'a advice and experience. I've always exercised, but never had the discipline of a lifestyle change like I have embraced recently. This topic does not even cover the dietary changes I have made including minimizing my 35 year beer intake as well as offsetting years of business travel. As a home brewer with gallons on beer on draft in garage, this has been both surreal and at time torturous.

    Again, thank you guys. Diet, weight loss and cardio are new frontiers for me. A function of age and wisdom I suppose. More to come.
     
  14. crank31

    crank31 Junior Member


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    I consider myself an intermediate runner. I can run a mile under 6 min/pace at 38 years old and have group runs with collegiate runners and some college coaches who have offered me some advise along the way. It's great that you have a goal, lose weight. This is simple. Most runners have a 29 min 10k goal or 15 min 5k goal, etc.

    For your goal, I suggest increasing your distance gradually and focus on aerobic running. Your most important run should be your long run, 60-90 min run, easy pace. I suggest 10:30 to 11:00 min/pace if your normal medium/short runs are 9 min pace.

    I disagree with doing speed work/interval work with your goal in mind. You might as well do HIIT strength workout to get this anaerobic work to avoid injuries at your age considering you're new to running . Speed/interval work should be done with preparing for an upcoming race. This type of workout helps you strain to finish mentally and improves your fast twitch muscles and that leg turnover that many runners focus on achieving to run fast.

    I do suggest you start planning to do a Time Trial. Since you're only at 4 miles long, I suggest doing a 1 mile time trial (flat/straight/no obstructions). This should be an all out effort to see where you stand physically. Then use this benchmark to measure your improvement in say 2-3 months later.

    I really suggest a Tempo Run. This is a run that is "comfortably hard." This is usually 20-30 seconds slower than your 5K race pace. So you should be pushing it, but the key is to stay at your target pace throughout the run. The basic tempo run is a 20 min tempo run. You should warm up 10 min before this run.

    Always do a dynamic warm up before you run, and a cool down run after.

    In sum, keep doing your medium/short runs, do one long run, and add a tempo run when you're ready to push the pace. Tempo runs are the key to getting you faster.
     
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  15. 3rd Slide

    3rd Slide Junior Member


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    Lifelong runner here. IMHO, screw the intervals and keep doing whatever feels good and keeps you enjoying it and wanting to do it again. Gains are made from consistency over time - end of story. And pace is mostly just serving your ego (it will take care of itself over time). Ego is your enemy in terms of both doing too much (especially too much too soon; your muscles will adapt faster than your joints and ligaments) and going too hard (which leads to burnout).

    If you want to get more into the weeds, think about increasing you total distance no more than 10% a week, and change things up often with distance & route. Maybe once a week add in a tempo run where you, say, run one mile at 9:00 to warm up, then one mile at 8:00 (the idea is to get you body to adapt to a slightly faster pace), and a cool down mile at 9:00; that’s it, don’t over do this. Err on the side of doing too little, and only add more if it feels comfortable. After something close to a year, mix in a weekly interval session that is short but very intense, and make sure you’re giving yourself adequate recovery time afterward (do this for 2-3 months a year max).

    Do 1 long run every week. Do your routine 3 weeks out of the month and the 4th week do a recovery week where you dial back to 60-65% of your regular routine. Plan 2-4 weeks once a year with no running (other sports are fine, just take a break from running).

    Highly recommend getting a watch that let’s you track your heart rate. Google Phil Maffetone and read about the MAF method; it works. Also google Jeff Galloway - his program has helped thousands run marathons. Both require patience but produce results if you follow it without jumping ahead.

    Get the book Born to Run and read it.

    Happy to help more if you want.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
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  16. LoyalTrojan

    LoyalTrojan Junior Member


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    #16
    I feel you when it comes to weight loss/gain. I am naturally a large built individual. Think a lineman build which I once was. My weight can swing 100lbs in either direction depending on if I’m at a serious point in my training. One thing for sure, this body is not built for running. As a matter of fact, the last time I ran for any distance was at the Huntington Beach dog beach running with my dog. What did I get for it? Plantar Fasciitis. That was great. Took about a year to heal. So needless to say, it’s non impact cardio equipment for me! In terms of losing weight, the old saying is true. 80% of your results is the effort you put into your diet. For me, as much as I love food (hence the 100lb swing) I have to view my food as a fuel source rather than something that tastes good or to binge eat. Just figure out your macros and then gradually decrease them each week and be consistent in your training and you’ll see the results you’re looking for....
     
  17. LoyalTrojan

    LoyalTrojan Junior Member


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    #17
    upload_2020-6-18_22-48-5.jpeg
    a couple of years ago at 53 years old
     
  18. Jay4usc

    Jay4usc Points Member


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    Include HIT program by doing wind sprints at the park. Running on grass can help save your knees. Or change it up and ride your
    Greta suggestion VBALL, I was going to make the same recommendation. I was able to get more out of running on different intervals and enjoyed pushing my lungs . Also, change it up and ride your bike for a few hours once a week to help preserve your knees. Remember take care of your knees at your age. Run on grass Or dirt trail if you can find them near you. I highly recommend buying Hoka running shoes, best cushioned running shoes for concrete. Keep up the good work and remember weight loss is mostly diet. Count your calories and do meal preps.
     
  19. Jpltrojan

    Jpltrojan Junior Member


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    #19
    As as former pro fighter running was my life for many years. Some great recommendations here but the other piece is your mental state. I had to break up the 6-milers with ladder sprints simply to break up the monotony. I needed something different to keep me engaged. Changing up the speed during a run just wasn’t enough change for me.

    If you find yourself getting bored exercises like hill climbs, sprints, and even periodic walks help.

    Now in my 60’s hips and knees don’t run. But walks are okay. Amazing how much damage I did back then. Please take extra caution to limit damage...as you age it’s no joke.
     

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