Okay, now... what's it going to take to keep Clay?

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by ClovisTroy, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. Boselli

    Boselli Junior Member


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    #21
    I am going to tell you something you don't want to hear.
    Clay was given a contract extension for the sainthood he projects to the BOT and the BOT whisperers.
    Can he be fired for continuing failure? Was Eulalia or Peter? Of course he can.
    But most here do not understand the behavioral science behind this which is...
    The cries to sue the NCAA for their sanctions against USC athletics was a fucking embarrassment to the academics. Can you not understand this? they want it all to go away and they give great leeway to Helton to tamp it down. He does not have to win big. He has to make them forget about Bush/NCAA/threats of suing.
     
  2. Troy21511

    Troy21511 Junior Member


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    #22
    I hit a nerve Son..You know it..You with the name calling confirms it.Lol..But at the end of the Day ucla is still going to Suck!!!! Take that to the Bank!
     
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  3. ConquerorSC

    ConquerorSC Points Member


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    #23
    LMAO, Troll21511!! ✌️

    Don’t lose anymore sleep over any of this.

    #TrollOn
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
  4. J4SC75

    J4SC75 Junior Member


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    #24
    You are reaching for the stars, aren't you?
     
  5. PacTrojan

    PacTrojan Junior Member


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    #25
    Last three years:
    2016 = 10-3
    2017 = 11-3
    2018 = 5-7
    Plus Rose Bowl win and Pac-12 Championship win.
    2019 = Incompetent assistant coaches (OC, DL, DB, OL) gone, new offensive scheme, QB a year older in college, motivated players, new football only dedicated and toughest strength and conditioning... ​
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  6. Coeur

    Coeur Points Member


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    #26
    ? Which part

    I don't think Pete wants The USC job. I just think it's a no brainer to touch base with him. The reason him helping SC is that he is in such a dominant spot in his career that he can. And would.



    Urban? You know what he'd do right? He's a Mount Rushmore coach. When you know you might be lined up in The path of a Million Dollar Hammer like Urban you don't run away unless there's something we don't know.


    any thoufhts on Jimmy Lake or Leach?

    Leach- very beay current D1 coach in the country yhat SC could hire

    Jimmy Lake- best up and comer


    If you hire urban yhe best part is he takes you to the top starting right now. If it's Conference power and hopefully national power soon then I think it's pretty dang powerful to take the legs out of one or 2 of the other top teams in your conference as a side affect of hiring your right hire. These guys both would do both
     
  7. TrojanHorseshoe

    TrojanHorseshoe Junior Member


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    #27
    This.

    When has anything less than being at the top of the college football universe been acceptable to the Trojan family?

    Granted, I don’t expect ‘SC to win the NC every year, but I do expect ‘SC to be a contender every year, like ‘Bama now.

    Clueless Clown is not the man for the job, plain and simple. Even if we go far this season, it’ll most likely be because of GH. What happens when he proves his chops and wants to move on to greener pastures? Then what? Keep Clueless knowing that he’s not the guy behind the Ws? Dummie Swannie has put himself in a pickle of a position if we are successful, unless he has the cajones to demote Clueless and promote GH to HC.

    Make no mistake that the BoT has made an effort to deemphasize football in their bid to become academically on par with Stanford and Harvard. The dumb-headed decisions of the athletic department confirm this. Haden, Lopes, and Swannie’s incompetence over the last 5-7 years has been both comic and tragic all at once.

    Comic in that the fan base has been right all along in calling out the hiring decisions as stubborn and misguided.

    Tragic in that it confirms that the BoT and the academic elites want a deemphasizing of athletics and football in particular, shunning a rich history of greatness and tradition a near century old.

    President Folt’s moves over the next year, and particularly after this season if it implodes like last season, will be telling as to whether she is in line with the elite snobs on the BoT or whether she appreciates the rich heritage of the football program and what that means for the school in the long run as to generating revenue as one of the best college brands, and college football brands, in America.

    Time will tell.
     
  8. BOULDER TO BIRMINGHAM

    BOULDER TO BIRMINGHAM Junior Member


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    #28
    So who hired and promoted these incompetent asst. coaches? Who held no one (players and coaches) accountable? Who put up with repeated knuckleheaded actions from certain players? Who continues to make excuses, talk about close losses, looking at more film, we fought like warriors, etc?
    Do you have any idea what Helton's record is hen Darnold isn't the starting QB?
    Did you watch this team play(and continually underachieve ) the last two seasons?
    Do you really want to defend that?
     
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  9. SC93er

    SC93er Junior Member


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    #29
    I can’t wait to see your columns in November.
     
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  10. sadpanda

    sadpanda Junior Member


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    #30
    Pete Carroll
    2001 = 6-6
    2002 = 11-2
    2003 = 12-1
    Plus one orange bowl win, one rose bowl win, one Pac-10 championship, one split NC

    Saban @ Alabama
    2007 = 7-6
    2008 = 12-2
    2009 = 14-0
    Plus one SEC championship, one NC

    Dabo Swinney
    2009 = 9-5
    2010 = 6-7
    2011 = 10-4
    2012 = 11-2
    2013 = 11-2
    *Had to Dethrone FSU who won NC in 2013, and now has dethroned Alabama a couple of times

    Chris Petersen @ washington
    2014 = 8-6
    2015 = 7-6
    2016 = 12-2

    Plus one CFP appearance, one Pac-12 championship

    Mike Leach @ WSU
    2012 = 3-9
    2013 = 6-7
    2014 = 3-9
    2015 = 9-4
    2016 = 8-5
    2017 = 9-4
    2018 = 11-2

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/

    My point is... it usually takes great (Carroll, Saban)/good (mike leach) coaches a couple years to successfully implement their culture. Their records trend upward for the most part. No doubt Helton has made some changes to the program. These changes just don’t happen overnight or in one offseason. It takes time and patience to implement culture and time is something I don’t know if Helton has anymore.
     
  11. Peete2Affholter

    Peete2Affholter Junior Member


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    #31
    sadpanda,

    Helton has been head of the program long enough to implement whatever culture and whatever vision he has for the program.

    While last year might have been a perfect storm of bad conditions, leading to a 5-7 record, many of those storm elements are on him as the head coach (the center to true freshman QB snap being a visible reminder on every play of his lack of coaching acumen). He is trending downwards, not up. Had we had a more pedestrian QB in 2016 and 2017 (let's say Darnold never wears C&G, and Max Browne is our QB for those years), I have little doubt that we'd be welcoming a new head coach this year or perhaps last year.

    I'd never root against our team (and am annoyed when Trojan fans say they're okay with losing to Juicy, if it means the coach gets canned - as we saw last year, one doesn't necessarily lead to the other) and I would be ecstatic if Helton suddenly finds football Jesus and becomes a turnaround coaching sensation, leading to another great era of USC football, but I just dont think it will happen ad long as he's head coach.

    He just isn't that good. Moreover, he's at the age and at the stage of his career where experience, ability, and energy/drive combine to generally have the best results of one's coaching career. I have not seen any "flashes of greatness" from him, or ever felt like he successfully outfoxed the opposition. Heck, at USC, the order of the day was usually 1) recruit well, 2) get out of their way. He can't do either well, and it is only because USC is still USC, and almost by osmosis still pulls in ridiculous recruits that many lesser programs have to do backflips for, that pur team still is dangerous on the field.

    Against any similarly talented program? We're a +7 underdog in any such game.
     
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  12. Ojaitrojan

    Ojaitrojan Points Member


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    #32
    Seeing as how this was HCCH's first HC gig, and the fact he's not paid at an elite level I wonder how much leeway he's had at dismissing assistants and choosing the style of play. Presumably HCCH doesn't objectively want to fail, so what external factors could there be?

    We know the athletic department doesn't want to buy out CH's contract, so presumably the same has held true for assistants.

    Orders could have come down from on high in regards to practice as well.

    I could be deluding myself, but it makes as much sense as simply being dumber as a head coach than as an assistant.

    I hope that was the case, and if so, allowing HCCH to change on his own could allow for a renaissance this season.
     
  13. Peete2Affholter

    Peete2Affholter Junior Member


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    #33
    I sincerely hope so, but as I mentioned, I have never seen any glimpses that Helton has a higher than average coaching ability. What has he done well? Most head coaches, even if they're decidedly mediocre, tend to have one or two attributes that they do well, or even excellently.

    Maybe their offenses are consistently good. Maybe they always recruit well. Maybe their teams are always disciplined and dont beat themselves, but are just under- talented.

    Helton has not shown me that he's good at any one thing. For a guy whose roots are on the offensive side of the ball, it is positively criminal how bad our offense became when a certain #14 was no longer running about like mad magician and pulling plays out of his ass.

    Again - I do hope 2019 will see USC become a dangerous team that no one wants to face, especially late in the season, but truthfully I'm just plain skeptical that Helton can engineer such a turnaround.
     
  14. BOULDER TO BIRMINGHAM

    BOULDER TO BIRMINGHAM Junior Member


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    #34
     
  15. BOULDER TO BIRMINGHAM

    BOULDER TO BIRMINGHAM Junior Member


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    #35
     
  16. BOULDER TO BIRMINGHAM

    BOULDER TO BIRMINGHAM Junior Member


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    #36
    While I agree that great coaches need time to establish a winning culture, and to attract their type of players, I believe the opposite is true for inept coaches like Helton. Usually the first year or two are as good as it gets. After that, there bad habits and approaches start to really dominate, and things only get worse from there. I sincerely doubt that Clay is establishing a no non-sense, hold people accountable, instill discipline, tough demanding practices, etc, type of culture. With him, the die is cast, and he is who he is.
    Hope we win, but also hope it is his last year.
     
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  17. Boselli

    Boselli Junior Member


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    #37
    I think your C++ or JAVA class got in the way of your IF THEN reasoning

    But I may be wrong about this.
     
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  18. BeachFAN

    BeachFAN Junior Member


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    #38
    LMAO
     
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  19. usc88

    usc88 Junior Member

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    #39
    A real big concern is recruiting.
    USC is not the go to program for top recruits in SC anymore
    Wash, Oregon, SEC have taken over.
    This was never the case even with Kiffin and Sark
    A tradition is being lost
     
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  20. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


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    #40
    Recruiting is a concern, but it’s temporary. We lost some of our dominance in recruiting, but winning will reverse that trend in short order. USC is still the “go to” program, but recruits are weighing that against their chances of making the NFL. That’s why we temporarily lost Bru.

    The trend MUST be reversed, I agree. Top 20 classes are not good enough. But USC is still by far the best recruiting brand on the west coast. None of those other schools could draw a top 20 class after a 5-7 season with a coaching staff in turmoil.
     

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