O/NSO: Listening and learning..sort of - edition

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by Greg Katz, Feb 21, 2020.

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  2. J4SC75

    J4SC75 Junior Member


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    #2
    Greg, very nice column, really enjoyed it and agree with all you say.

    I would go a step further about Bohn learning and that is how involved he became after the loss to Iowa State. I think that loss highlighted how many things were wrong with our football program under Helton. I don't think replacing him at that point, especially after he so publicly supported him, was an option. Noticeably Bohn became more involved in making changes in the football program - it is clear from Helton comments that he would not have cleaned house on the defensive side. I do think that Helton helped close the deal on defensive hirings, but I also think Clay knows this year is his last to make good and he has a staff that should be able to help the kids produce and win games.

    I think Bohn is trying to make athletics more open to fans and sport alumni alike. Opening up spring practice is just one example, but an incredibly important one for the fans. Increased physicality should be obvious or likewise the lack of it.
     
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  3. GoSC1

    GoSC1 Junior Member


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    #3
    Well put.... I tend to think that the practices were closed previously because Helton knew he couldn't sweet talk how hard practices were if the fans were there. Opening up the pratices, to me, is a HUGE step in the right direction. Benefits Helton, whether he likes it or not, because credit for any positive changes next year are NOT naturally going to be given to him by this fan base. He needs transparency - whether he likes it or not.
     
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  4. gubo&palanka

    gubo&palanka Points Member

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    #4
    1. Already, I can't stand to look at Folt.

    2. “I’ve already started watching Alabama film.” Oh, jesus...
     
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  5. Fyton82

    Fyton82 Points Member


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    #5
    Dodd quotes Clay Helton as saying, “I’ve already started watching Alabama film.”

    Note to Clay: watching the football scenes from Forrest Gump is not the same as watching Bama game film.
     
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  6. Troy70

    Troy70 Junior Member


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    #6
    Will attend some practices after spring break when team should have pads on to see if new DC gets his tackling. Too bad Duck's HC did not take Clay to bama practices like he did with his own staff
     
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  7. TrojanHoss

    TrojanHoss Junior Member


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    #7
    I know I am in the minority on this, but I have a differing view regarding Folt and Helton. Whereas most feel that Helton swept Folt off her feet with his genial nature and charm, I see something else.

    We all understand that Folt has a lot to clean up at USC, and all of it has to do with lack of integrity. Every black eye we have received has to do with lack of institutional integrity, whether it's "Varsity Blues", the sexual abuse issues, or the other issues that seem to permeate as a result of the Nikias mess.

    Folt probably knows, to some degree, that Helton has been a failure as coach, and that we wanted desperately to see a change. That said, we all agree that both she and Bohn were probably caught off guard by the vitriol they received by retaining Helton. However, Folt also knows that Clay is a man of good reputation and is never associated with the kind of issues that have clouded USC. In a time of cleaning up scandal, real or perceived, a squeaky-clean coach is much preferred. Can you imagine the national "outrage", the articles, and the denunciations, if we had hired Meyer? "USC hasn't learned a thing," they would scream. It would have been brutal. Now, most of us on this board wouldn't have cared about that - we are disgusted by the results on the field - but a president needs to care.

    My thought is that Folt will take this year to begin to clean up the messes, and we have already seen evidences of that. Clay has another year and high-quality assistants were brought in. It may or may not be a successful year on the field, but there will be no scandal around the program. That's important to the university at this point in time. Then, if this season is more of what we have seen from Helton, Folt and Bohn move on from Clay and a coaching search begins. The timing for a president in clean-up mode will be much better after next season.
     
  8. sctrojan2006

    sctrojan2006 Junior Member


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    #8
    This is a valid point-of-view. In a further attempt to clean up its image USC just announced a major expansion to its financial aid program; including free tuition to families making less than $80k a year. Nikias, Haden, Swann, and company really hurt the school, and it is going to take a lot of work to turn things around. I do not envy the task ahead for either Folt or Bohn.
     
  9. Rainman44

    Rainman44 Junior Member


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    #9
    I tend to agree. I honestly believe that Bohn did due diligence in replacing Helton only to find out that there was not an easy answer and or financial restrictions involved. In lieu of a HC change, changes have been made to staff coaches. To Bohn and Holt, this is a process. Not a knee jerk reaction to appease fans at any cost. Obviously if the program does not improve next year, then both Bohn and Holt will have witnessed it 100% on their watch, which would put them in a stronger position to make a change.
     
  10. SC93er

    SC93er Junior Member


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    #11
    Dodd said USC was on the verge of hiring the highly respected Aranda as DC before the former LSU DC was named the head coach at Baylor. According to Dodd’s column, a USC source said, “We were all set to have him. We matched LSU’s deal.”

    If all we have to go on is this quote from the USC source, that's a far cry from "on the verge of hiring." Did Aranda actually accept the offer? Did he even say he was considering it? Or was it simply that the offer was made to him? "We were all set to have him" and "We matched LSU's deal" does NOT equate to "We made him an offer and he indicated that he planned to accept before Baylor stepped in with a HC offer."
     
  11. SC93er

    SC93er Junior Member


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    #12
    Question for you, Greg: from what you know of Orlando and his prior use of the Inside Linebacker spot, do you think he would have gone with a 220-lb. player (Houston) playing that position or someone beefier?
     
  12. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy Points Member


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    #13

    To me, it is a sign of weakness on the part of Folt/Bohn. The message they are sending is that they know that from a purely athletic standpoint the football program is floundering yet they are incapable of hiring a new HC who can win and run a clean program and therefore will retain a coach whose biggest attribute is that he runs a clean program.
     
  13. Bilbo

    Bilbo Points Member

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    #14
    Greg
    Any reason other than financial that Bohn did not resign after Dr Folt over ruled his wish to change head coaches
    Also is Helton so spineless that he accepts someone else to hire his staff for him
    Didn’t Ted Tollner seal his fate by not changing assistant coaches as Mike McGee suggested
    The lack of executive decision making as it relates to our football program is appalling
    BTW .. love the humor acknowledging that our head coach is already preparing for The Tidaroos
    ... someone tell him the movie still ends the same way
    Enjoy the weekend
     
  14. SC200SC

    SC200SC Junior Member


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    #15
    Greg, you wrote that fan discontentment with Coach Helton is nearly unanimous. Perhaps you yourself could "learn" from political polls which have shown much lower support than actual for a particular candidate.
    Why? Because they tire of the relentless nastiness from the other side. WeAreSC has demonstrated this on steroids. This will become evident by the responses my post will surely generate.
    Besides the incessant nastiness, I have noted that many of the"haters" actually don't know that much about football.
    For example; how many times does Erik have to explain that Helton has to follow certain NCAA practice guidelines? Or remind the fanbase that SC got bit by the injury bug the past two seasons?
    So Helton has done a tremendous amount of improvements during the off season, yet the mob won't relent. IMHO, these folks are hurting SC recruitment as much as anything.
    As for what legendary players think, that's fine, but you never mentioned what current players think

    Maybe the fact that only one Junior is leaving early says volumes.
    So Fight On and beat the Tide!
     
  15. TrojanFireHorse12

    TrojanFireHorse12 Junior Member


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    #16
    Please say sike with this nonsense (you predicting factual responses and labeling them unfounded or nasty, is bunk bs). And yes only one Junior leaving speaks volumes about the lack of development that has gone on at USC, otherwise they'd be gone.

    Beside that, boy did you go into the war chest of excuses here. I don't think Mr. Fight needs a defense force, he gets paid millions of dollars to do one job and his done it poorly.

    Also, you'd have to be an idiot to believe that fans affect recruiting at all and not the product on the field or the state of the program. No one wants to go to a school that gets stomped on by Ohio State, Alabama, Iowa and Oregon on national TV.

    They'd rather go to those programs instead to join in on the beating and win on the road. Bottom-line Mr. Fight has failed to bring this program back to a consistent year over year progression. Despite having fertile ground.

    Don't need a football "degree" to understand the last two years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  16. SC200SC

    SC200SC Junior Member


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    #17
    Hmmm, thanks.
    BTW, the constant fan vitriol has become very much a part of the state of the program. I would like to see it turned off for 2020 and let things play out. There are many things to be optimistic about. However, I do understand that miserable people do indeed love their companions.
     
  17. TrojanFireHorse12

    TrojanFireHorse12 Junior Member


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    #18
    Blaming fans for the fault of a sports program (that they have supported for a long time) will always be asinine, sorry.

    Furthermore, I think it's best to not be blind to reality. So the notion that fans are acting 'miserable" for the sake of it. To be false, outside a handful. It's more about realistic expectations, taking into account the program's inability to meet them. Which has started to get under folks skin.

    All while the brand suffers. Plus we've been down this road before despite the solution being clear. I mean we can't ignore the fact that there were changes in 2016, 2017, and 2018. Yet, what did that do for 2019?, other than a net positive in one area. Now that the program has been forced to fire the hold over's. Replacing them with a lot of new coaches and faces, as things are starting to happen. You would like to believe that there would be more optimism. But that has to be earned, just like the new AD said USC is a bloodline football programs, and needs to act like one. And that means addressing all those questions that still remain.

    Most of which have to do with Mr. Fight, now that he has more support as he proclaimed. But what exactly does that mean and why would that support. Allow him to win more games or big games? Does that mean he'll win on the road? Nothing, he's shown us this far, points to him being self-aware. Let alone showcased any real skill in preparing a football team to play at an elite level. Even as a vestige of hope, for fans if he had better support.

    He's just going to have to prove us all wrong...no more blind trust, Mr. Fight has talk the talk far too many times, without backing up his words with results.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  18. 1980trojan

    1980trojan Points Member


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    #19
    Looking at film will show him more than what Alabama's scheme looks like. It will show him what Alabama PLAYERS look like. Recruiting is the life blood of a program. We cannot lose the quality of player we have lost and be nothing more than scrimmage team for the big boys. Oregon, Clemson, Alabama are feasting on real impact players that came from our backyard and beating us like a drum. Coaching can only help so much. You need the horses and the attitude that I am better than you and I'm gonna knock the snot out of you all day long. Why ? Cause I can and you can't stop me.

    Fight On!
     
  19. TrojanFireHorse12

    TrojanFireHorse12 Junior Member


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    #20
    him watching film does nothing
     

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