Norm Chow back to coaching

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by Jay4usc, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. BlemBlam

    BlemBlam Junior Member


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    #61
    .your mission was to make yourself look like a dumb Shyte?

    As they say here, in the south. Bless Your Heart
     
  2. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


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    #62
    I do believe he was one of the greatest OC’s of all time.

    He had plenty of success before he ever got to USC, and some after. Among the QB’s he coached/developed in college were Steve Young, Phillip Rivers, Jim McMahon, Ty Detmer, Carson Palmer, and Matt Leinart. The last 3 listed were Heisman Trophy winners. After USC, he coached Vince Young to 3 Pro Bowls. Keep in kind that after Chow left USC, PC didn’t win another NC with similarly talented teams. And Vince Young didn’t make another Pro Bowl without Chow.

    It’s very difficult to argue with Chows resume, and you’d be hard pressed to find another OC with a resume to match. I think football may have passed him by and he’d have a hard time duplicating the decades of success that he previously had, but he was clearly one of the all time greats.
     
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  3. sc85sis

    sc85sis Junior Member


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    #63
    Pete did win a Super Bowl though, with Darrell Bevell...

    Norm definitely was a great OC at BYU and a great game planner and play caller as OC at USC. But his BYU offense did not work in the P12 and Pete had no choice but to make changes after that 6-6 first year.
     
  4. BlemBlam

    BlemBlam Junior Member


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    #64
    Good resume, but putting Jim McMahon on there is like putting Matt Leinart, John David Booty and Mark Sanchez On Todd McNairs resume. Norm coached WR’s and RB’s when McMahon was at BYU.

    Some are way over inflating his OC resume too. While he was the play caller after McMahon left, he wasn’t the OC for most of his time at BYU. He was up in the booth, implementing LaVell Edwards’ game plan. LaVell Edwards was the true offensive genius.

    Norm had been an Offensive Coordinator for exactly 5 years when Pete hired him. 4 at BYU and 1 at N.C. State. Chowistas are acting like he was Sid Gilman, Bill Walsh and Don Coryell all wrapped up in 1. He wasn’t even La Vell Edwards. Remember during the off season between 2003 and 2004? He knew he had a special player in Reggie Bush, but really had no idea how to optimize his skill set. So what did he do? Spend the winter thinking up ways to use Reggie on his own? Nope. He went to St Louis, to pick the brain of Mike Martz, another overrated weirdo, on how he used Marshall Faulk.

    I’m not trying to pick a fight with you, FireDoc, we’ve always been cool, but this NormIsGod cult we have on here is just creepy as shyte
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  5. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


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    #65
    His resume since USC is a joke. Coaching at Mira Costa High School? Oh my. And frankly, as has been pointed out, during his tenure at USC, it was most PC's offense. Once PC favored Kiffin (also an OC great), Chow's ego couldn't handle it. He legit has a hand in Carson Palmer's Heisman but the others? Naw.
     
  6. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


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    #66
    Of course man, we’re good. I just disagree with you on Chow. Whatever the reason may be, I saw his offense here as outstanding.
     
  7. RB4SC

    RB4SC Points Member


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    #67
    Norm UTILIZED his modified version of the BYU/LaVell Edwards Spread. It was "ahead of the GAME" for it's time. The "Air-Raid" is ACTUALLY a by-product of the LaVell Edwards/Norm Chow Offense. Both Hal Mumme and Mike Leach studied UNDER Edwards/Chow at BYU...Norm's version allowed for more "Run Game" development. And, honestly, Pete Carroll PUSHED him to be even MORE committed to the "Run Game" development...made for some GREAT USC Football moments!

    Fight On, FOREVER, Fight On!
    RB4SC
     
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  8. BlemBlam

    BlemBlam Junior Member


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    #68
    Neither Mike Leach or Hal Mumme coached at BYU. So unless Leach was charting plays sitting in the student section, there is absolutely zero truth to that statement

    Mumme was actually influenced by Bill Young his boss at UTEP but he has also said he had to study LaVell Edwards because they played them every year.

    Mouse Davis is another huge influence on all of these offenses
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  9. BlemBlam

    BlemBlam Junior Member


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    #69
    I don’t recall saying his offense wasn’t outstanding. I simply don’t believe it was as great as The Chowistas revisionism would have us believe.
    By just about every metric, our 2005 offense better.
     
  10. Fyton82

    Fyton82 Points Member


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    #70
    I'm not going to rehash our discussion re: Chow as we're both pretty entrenched in our positions. But re: Steve Smith's year-to-year production, you're forgetting something. Steve broke his leg early in the the 2004 season and missed quite a few games before returning for the Orange Bowl. Kinda hard to get much production when you're in a cast on the sidelines.
     
  11. KeenObserver

    KeenObserver Junior Member


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    #71
    Chows departure ‘s impact to our program is greatly overrated. In terms of national championships, just remember how many times were screwed in the rankings. In today’s playoff format, it is absolutely reasonable to assume we’d have 2-3 more post Chow. In that we had 4 consecutive top 4 finishes under Uday and Qusay. All while Chow did next to nothing for the next several years.
     
  12. BlemBlam

    BlemBlam Junior Member


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    #72
    Of course I remember he broke his leg in the Cal game.
    That still doesn’t prove the guys idiotic contention that Steve’s production fell off under Lane. It didn’t.
    What if’s are just that, what ifs.
    Dwayne Jarretts receptions grew by 40 catches. Did he have a broken leg in 2004 too?
    I do admire you Chowistas staying power though, like pit bulls. Keep throwing bullshyte against the wall, eventually something might eventually stick
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  13. RB4SC

    RB4SC Points Member


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    #73
    Respectfully, your statements are true...But, I NEVER said either coached there. Yet, on more than one occasion, they both "STUDIED" under LaVell and Norm by attending their spring practices/coaches meetings and "LEARNING" directly as disciples of their concepts.

    https://byucougars.com/story/football/121314/The-LaVell-Edwards-Coaching-Tree

    https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=54780196&itype=CMSID

    Tiger Ellison is the GRANDFATHER and Pioneer of the Run and Shoot and Mouse Davis took it to it's modernized level...The Spread and the "Air-Raid" are the growths off that tree.

    http://pistoltripleoptionfootball.com/glenn-tiger-ellison-greatest-innovator-football-history/

    Edited: PS - I never coached for or played under Dennis Erickson, but, through a MUTUAL friend, I was allowed to "STUDY" under his staff from 1999 to 2002...and, MANY of his concepts INFLUENCED my growth as a coach, but, I cannot CLAIM I coached under him...but he did influence my coaching philosophies...it was a lot of fun to be in the offices as they BUILT the team that eventually defeated Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl...I was there as Jonathan Smith sat out Spring ball with his thumb in a cast...and I was given UNLIMITED access to coaches, meetings, practices, and the film room...BUT I wasn't one of his coaches...

    Not looking for anything but "TRUTH"...

    Fight On, FOREVER, Fight On!
    RB4SC
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
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  14. SeattleTrojan

    SeattleTrojan Junior Member


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    #74
    PC went to another NC post Chow and 2 SB’s winning 1. What did Chow do post PC?

    Titans offense was 21st, 16th and 22nd in total yards. Didn’t exactly light up the NFL did he? Perhaps better suited for CFB.
    2008 UCLA - 8th in total offense
    2009 UCLA - 9th in total offense
    2010 UCLA - 10th in total offense
    2011 Utah - 9th in total offense

    Just remember him for who he was, a good OC while under PC.
     
  15. BlemBlam

    BlemBlam Junior Member


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    #75
    Ok, I got you, and I believe we are both saying the same thing, just coming at it from different directions. As I said in a reply to another poster, Chow’s OC resume was and is vastly overrated on here by a certain group of posters, and that it was LaVell Edwards who was the true offensive genius, not Norm Chow.

    In my defense, when someone says they studied UNDER a certain coach, most of the time it implies they were coaches on his staff, but thanks for the clarification. I’ve always greatly respected your posts and input.
     
  16. BlemBlam

    BlemBlam Junior Member


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    #76
    FYI, Kirtman had the exact same number of carries 8, in 2005 as he did in 2004 and actually had three more receptions in 2005 22 than he did in 2004?

    Just another example where facts diverge from the narrative.

    Agree on David Kirtman though. Loved that guy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  17. bob c in az

    bob c in az Junior Member


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    #77
    Vince Young making the pro bowll??? That is the accomplishment??? Look for the most part Chow had noteworthy sucess at two places, USC and BYU, or more precisley with Lavell Edwards and Pete Carroll. Other places he stopped he had very little impact. As for Pete not winning another NC after Chow left that comes under the category of correlation without causation. A better explaination would be that the coachs around the country and PXII had caught up with Petes stuff. Same thing happened after he returned to the pros.
     
  18. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


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    #78
    Come on uscvball, surely you could see that he was 70 yrs old and that this was essentially a retirement job for him. It was more volunteer work than anything else.
     
  19. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


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    #79
    I would say that this would be a good explanation as to why Norm Chow’s success dropped off as well.
     
  20. bob c in az

    bob c in az Junior Member


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    #80
    You could also say that Norm ran out of Edwards and Carrolls
     

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