Musings from Arledge: Helton, Harrell and Those "Little Things"

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by ErikMcKinney, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. Rainman44

    Rainman44 Junior Member


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    #21
    I appreciate your perspective RB4SC (as always).

    I also enjoyed/appreciated Chris's article if only because it is indicative of the lack of believe in HCCH at this stage. As such, Helton's attempts to suggest that things aren't as bad as they seem (my interpretation of his words) fall on deaf ears. And frankly, that's where we are right now. He doesn't have the cachet (or balls) to pull a Greg Popovich, calling it the way it is (I saw Pop the other night in a post game interview where he just reamed himself and his team in an unemotional and totally honest way - and this was after a win!!! ).

    What is disconcerting is not knowing whether Helton see's the situation as in need of a bandaid or a makeover. He is somewhere in the middle, and judging from what we have seen so far, it is more left of middle. HIs assessment lacks objectivity (lack of confidence?). The more that he sends that message, the more uneasy the majority of folks on this board will be. Alternatively, the more forthcoming, and the more urgent his message is, the greater the benefit of the doubt he will receive.

    Spring ball can't get here fast enough. ;-)

    Fight on!
     
  2. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


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    #22
    Just my observation after having been reading and posting here for well over 10 years.... it is very difficult to transition from regular poster to contributing staff member.

    You are taking far more criticism than I think I have ever seen of any other writer before. I can't say I totally understand why.

    Your take here was spot-on. An emphasis on the fundamentals is much needed and not the little things that Clay referred to. Yes Clay made some comments that appear to reveal some sort of previously unacknowledged insight. But at this point what we have to go on is a couple years of demonstrated behavior. It's hard to believe one over the other. Show me don't tell me.

    And frankly if you are an occasionally snarky glass is half-empty sort of guy then be that guy. There is nothing wrong with it. Your take is your take.
     
  3. 901 Club

    901 Club Junior Member


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    #23
    Absolutely. I always keep the words of TR in mind:

    It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
     
  4. SoCalN8tiv

    SoCalN8tiv Junior Member


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    #24
    A thought paraphrased by Evel Knievel.
     
  5. Arhedge

    Arhedge Junior Member


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    #25
    I appreciate the support, uscvball, especially since it comes from one of the longest tenured and best posters on this board.

    That being said, I have no problem with any of the criticism that's come my way. In my real job, just about every time I say anything, there is somebody on the other side paid to call me a liar or say I don't know what I'm talking about. The criticism here doesn't bother me in the slightest. A fair bit of it has been constructive, which is great, and the stuff that isn't constructive is okay too; not everybody has to see things the way I do.
     
  6. GoSC27!

    GoSC27! Points Member


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    #26
    Chris,
    In your response you acknowledge that Helton is a good man. I don’t think there are many that would argue that point with you, but just like the real world, you are PAID to execute at your job and last year’s performance fell short of those expectations.
    Helton is being paid millions and that alone should warrant more then the attribute of being a “Nice Man.” We need to stop using the “Nice Man” card and have higher expectations for someone that is receiving that type of compensation. In the real world just being a “Nice Man” doesn’t cut it and if you cannot perform you are fired. Our expectations should be nothing less for our football program!
    Fight On!
     
  7. SoCalN8tiv

    SoCalN8tiv Junior Member


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    #27
    The old folksy homespun adage says it's the little things that add up to bigger things.

    https://www.powerofpositivity.com/5-reasons-make-bed-every-morning
    “If you make your bed every morning, you will have accomplished the first task of the day. Making your bed will [reinforce] the fact that the little things in life matter. For reasons that vary from the cultivation of mental discipline to highlighting a bedroom’s aesthetics, there is something to be said about making your bed every morning.
     
  8. SC200SC

    SC200SC Junior Member


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    #28
    I do have some positive outlooks, but I am not void of realistic views either. It is no secret that I like Helton and still see potential for him. However, realistically speaking, what if he doesn't pan out? I am concerned that no good qualified coach will be interested in USC if the environment remains consistently negative and lacks media and fan support.

    As for silver linings, I see a paradigm shift that so many of us need to come to grips with; there was for a long time the understanding that if a high school QB had notions of getting to the NFL, then USC was the place to get him there. After all, you had to be a drop back or "Pro Style" guy for the pros, and that was what USC was all about. That is changing, so we must see this, and adapt to it. I see Clay to be out front on this.
    Therefore, as difficult as it can be to let go of power running football, for USC I believe the writing is on the wall that those traditions will become just wonderful "romantic" (as in love of the game) memories.

    Secondly, and I will not let this one go. We had an inordinate amount of injuries, etc. last season. Helton should get somewhat of break regarding this. Instead, he gets called names like Gomer, et al. I just don't think this is appropriate or fair.

    Third, I believe that Helton got burned a little bit last season. He has a particular style and develops a type of relationship that relies on the players to behave a certain way. Read that as responsible and accountable. That didn't always go that way, and it cost us. The silver lining here is that Clay has younger players coming up that were recruited with this in mind, and so I see better things ahead. Also, Clay is stubborn at times, but I believe he will also assign some more overt disciplinarian approaches via a couple of assistant coaches. He won't ignore this.

    I love USC football, I love the off season, the recruiting, and all that stuff. However, this off season has not been very enjoyable. I don't mind some criticism, but the same old thing is being said over and over, and it has become tiresome.

    I do want to conclude with this last comment. I found your response to me to be tremendous! It was thoughtful and conversation provoking. It captured the essence of what this board should be all about. Thanks.
     
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  9. Boselli

    Boselli Junior Member

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    #29
    This has been my take what with the post-PC whack-a-mole head coaching exchanges (Mr Ed, CH temp, Sark, CH temp again, CH for real)
    Five years is about right for tenure and this will be his forth. With a winning record of some moderate strength he has at least two more seasons.
     
  10. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    #30
    I think you're spot on here Chris. Just my perspective but I think that the defense played fairly well over the past few seasons and was actually better than most think last season considering how horrible the offense was. So I have faith in Clancy's experience that he has control of that side of the ball...and that Clay has previously yielded control of the Xs and Os of the defense to Clancy.

    On offense I don't think that was the case. Tee had zero experience as an OC when Clay gave him that promotion to keep him from walking. That's where he really went wrong. He couldn't be the CEO when he was having to try and teach, coach, and mentor his OC who didn't know what he was doing. That distracted Clay from what he should have been doing which was establishing and nurturing that culture he wanted. I believe that he can make some great strides this offseason since he now doesn't need to meddle in the offensive Xs and Os...he has an experienced OC who knows what he's doing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  11. Arhedge

    Arhedge Junior Member


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    #31
    Now we're having a conversation. Thank you for that response. This is exactly what I think the message boards should be. (Well, this and Keen answering his annual mailbag questions.)

    Let's start with the basics: pessimists suck. I know that, and I am one. Always bringing up the negative and bringing people down. But here's the thing: optimists, like Clay Helton, have to be very careful of their blind spots. It's far too easy for an optimist to convince himself that everything is great, that the ship is sound, right until the point when the deck is covered in water.

    Clay wasn't ambushed by unexpected problems in 2018. He ignored festering problems; he pretended the cracks in the foundation weren't all that serious. I don't know how else to explain his in-season demotion of Tee Martin and firing of Neil Callaway. It was unanticipated that those two guys weren't cutting it? That only became clear after eight games of the 2018 season? That doesn't really inspire confidence, does it? People who paid attention to USC football, outsiders and jokers like me, recognized those problems a long time ago. And you can't be an effective leader of any organization if you are so slow to recognize and deal with problems that you don't own up to them until after they've already started to sink the ship. I've read where Nick Saban asks himself over and over, "What can go wrong?" I'm not convinced Clay Helton spends nearly enough time asking that question. And if he does, I'm troubled that he didn't stumble upon answers that were circulating on this board two years ago.

    This is why I think the primary fault line is between those who think things were going well and 2018 was an aberration -- people like Clay Helton himself, it appears -- and those who were predicting Clay's ultimate failure because the cracks in the foundation were clear for a very long time before September of 2018. 2018 didn't come out of nowhere; the program was eroding, and 2018 was its logical end point. (It did, I admit, happen faster than I expected.)

    USC had some injury problems on defense. It lost its only real pass rusher and the bulk of the secondary. But offensively? The O line was relatively healthy all year, as were the backs and receivers, and the QB sat out one game (and was replaced by somebody who was more than competent). Injuries didn't kill USC's offense in 2018. USC had a staff that wasn't cutting it, a fact Clay Helton belatedly recognized during the bye week before Oregon State, and a culture problem.

    Finally, I get that hearing "the same old thing ... being said over and over" can in fact get "tiresome." But not much happens in the offseason, and like a 24-hour news network, you can't help but recycle the same things -- or turn it off. But that seems like a particularly strange criticism to make of an article that was an analysis of a quote that Clay Helton just made a couple of days ago. If we can't talk in real-time about the USC head coach's statements about the program, I'm not sure what we can talk about.

    Thank you again for engaging. Good talk, Russ.
     
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  12. SC200SC

    SC200SC Junior Member


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    #32
    I am not so sure we are necessarily that far apart here. But there is no doubt that I am the glass half full type. AND we are talking about a game here, and so I consistently seek the fun in it.
     
  13. Sam Bam

    Sam Bam Junior Member


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    #33
    This seems to be circular logic to me. But it did make me laugh
     
  14. gubo&palanka

    gubo&palanka Points Member

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    #34
    Love the unhinged rant. Your takes are so "on" and so very well written. I know you are busy with other things in life, but hope you never tire of writing about USC football.
     
  15. sc85sis

    sc85sis Junior Member


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    #35
    I can't see USC hiring a guy like Leach as head coach because he's too much of a wild card personality wise. He doesn't fit the image USC seemingly wants to convey. Kingsbury, and Harrell, have "cleaner" images, and so far have had success coaching Leach's system--or variants thereof.
     
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  16. Hockey10

    Hockey10 Junior Member


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    #36
    Encore! Encore!
    This was like a collage of all my thoughts and prior posts. Helton isn't meant to be a HC at USC. The musing and post like this by fans like us who so plainly can see it all are accurate. I just can't understand why Swann and the powers to be can't see it.
     
  17. Troianus Acies

    Troianus Acies Junior Member


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    #37

    You, my friend have missed the mark or have been triggered. The truth of all that is said in this Arledge post is undeniable and at times may appear to be snarky when unintended.

    Nothing wrong with disagreeing with another poster as that is healthy to the advancement of knowledge and understanding.

    I disagree with the quoted statement but, enjoy your posts.

    Fight On!
     
  18. gubo&palanka

    gubo&palanka Points Member

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    #38
    If a coach like Urban Meyer took the gig, I have a hunch the support might increase a tiny bit.
     
  19. Troianus Acies

    Troianus Acies Junior Member


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    #39

    And?
     
  20. Troianus Acies

    Troianus Acies Junior Member


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    #40

    SPOT ON!...as usual.
     

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