JT Daniels vs Matt Barkley 2009

Discussion in 'Trojan Huddle' started by FightOn1992, Nov 9, 2018 at 8:56 AM.

  1. JT Daniels vs Matt Barkley 2009
    FightOn1992

    FightOn1992 Junior Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 8:56 AM
    #1
    There has been a LOT of discussion on JT and his performance. I felt like trying to find out what is reasonable to expect after getting away from the absurd hype he received and was basically unrealistic. Hence I tried to find a USC comparable and I think this matches well:

    So I thought it would be interesting to compare JT Daniels' first year to that of the only other USC QB who started as a true Freshman. The conclusion is that they are remarkably similar with the slight edge going to Barkley. This jibes with my opinion of these two -
    1. They both dealt with way inflated expectations that neither was able to meet (which is not a shock)
    2. They both were OK not great as a QB but probably pretty solid as a Freshman (with normal expectations)
    3. They both were cerebral QBs with a fantastic work ethic
    4. They are not particularly mobile and likely limits their upside

    Barkley 2009:
    Attempts 352
    Completions 211
    Comp Pct 59.9%
    Yards 2735
    TD 15
    Int 14
    Rating 131.3

    Daniels
    ( he is through 8 games so I will show current numbers and extrapolated numbers by multiplying by 11/8 as he has 3 more guaranteed starts)
    Attempts 244 ... extrapolated 336
    Completions 138 ... extrapolated 190
    Comp Pct 56.6%
    Yards 1806 ... extrapolated 2483
    TD 9 ... extrapolated 12
    Int 7 ... extrapolated 10
    Rating 125.2

    The conclusion to me is that JT and Matt are incredibly similar and I think our expectations for JT should align those to Matt:
    1. The goal should be for JT to be a top 10 QB in USC History and accept that top 5 is not likely (he simply does not have the athleticism, arm strength, and/or accuracy of Palmer, Leinart, Darnold, Peete and frankly he may be challenged to match Sanchez, MacDonald).
    2. JT can continue to develop and show by his work ethic that he can be an excellent leader for the team
    3. He may definitely be able to get us a serious run at a playoff spot (see Matt B in 2011 without sanctions) and I think he likely is an NFL backup caliber QB.

    Thoughts?

    Fight On!
     
       
  2. BarNone

    BarNone Junior Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 9:06 AM
    #2
    I'm a big Matt Barkley fan, and i think some USC fans undeservedly bash him for USC's drop from elite levels when the overall talent in the program dropped. He and TJ were huge leaders holding the program together when Carroll left and the sanctions hit. We owe them a lot. However, i think JT has better mobility and arm talent than Matt does. It is too soon IMO to project him at the next level.
     
  3. FightOn1992

    FightOn1992 Junior Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 9:10 AM
    #4
    Hey TRUST me I am a huge fan of Barkley and TJ - I have a signed jersey #7 (signed by Barkley and TJ) in my office - it is the ONLY jersey I have. I am in no way knocking JT by comparing him to Matt who will always be one of my favorite Trojans:') We shall see on the mobility and arm talent - JT definitely works hard to get all he can out of his abilities (kind of like Matt B;') Fight On!
     
  4. SoCalN8tiv

    SoCalN8tiv Junior Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 9:14 AM
    #5
    If I could add one phase to JT's game it would be Cody Kessler's short passing game. Only Cody's short passing game.
     
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  5. Troy70

    Troy70 Junior Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 9:27 AM
    #6
    Matt had a run game to help beat the buckeyes, a QB ‘s best friend. Agree too much expected of JT with poor OL play
     
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  6. gubo&palanka

    gubo&palanka Points Member

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    Nov 9, 2018 at 9:38 AM
    #7
    Barkley had modest success under difficult conditions at SC and is still (barely) collecting an nfl paycheck.

    Barkley at SC had bad coaching (Bates as opposed to Chow) and coaching turnover, no depth and an average defense.

    It was primarily coaching and defense that determined his success. Sound familiar?

    The USC left tackle who let that ucla guy pancake Barkley didn't help either. What was that guy's name? From Ohio?
     
  7. heyrev

    heyrev Junior Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 9:48 AM
    #8
    Oh my, where do you see that? I disagree--a statue is stationary by definition. Both were/are mediocre in the pocket-presence category. Still hopeful JT can gain more but generally the older a QB gets, the less mobile they become.
     
  8. in2nation

    in2nation Junior Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 10:21 AM
    #9
    Aundrey Walker, not the hardest working man in show business.
     
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  9. SC200SC

    SC200SC Junior Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 10:35 AM
    #10
    .
    Seems to me that JT pretty much leaves the pocket only to reduce the yards lost on an impending sack. Seems to be his nature and his running skill level.
    I would like to see more safety valve stuff built in to help make lemonade in these situations.
    .
    Meanwhile in looking back, Matt was a better team leader BUT we have the benefit of 4 years vs. 3/4 of one season. When on rare occasions I see JT getting pumped and animated, I see the team follow suit.
    IMHO, JT will be very good going forward but had way too high of expectations placed on him before he even played his first game.
     
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  10. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 11:46 AM
    #11
    With better coordination of the offense and better O-Line play, JT could be having an impressive season. He’d still be making some of the same freshman mistakes, including not looking for/finding secondary receivers when his primary is covered. But his accuracy and arm strength would be fine.

    His mobility is not bad, but he is not a dual threat and won’t be making plays with his legs like Darnold, so the offensive scheme shouldn’t depend on it.

    The offense needs to get back to more short, high percentage plays mixed with the occasional long ball to keep the defense wary. This gets the ball out of JT’s hands more quickly on pass plays, something that helps when the O-Line play isn’t what it should be.

    And we must incorporate more play action, possibly on every pass play within the Pistol. I think this very important. This freezes the linebackers momentarily and helps receivers get open, as well as creating hesitation for them to commit to defending the run. Right now it’s too predictable IMO.

    Play actions also utilize the advantages of the Pistol formation, and there are real advantages to it when done correctly (and when the center can do a decent job of snapping the ball). Not only does the defense not immediately know if it’s a run or a pass, but it can also help disguise which way the RB is headed with the ball until after the handoff. We really aren’t disguising things effectively IMO.

    I believe JT can work within the pistol, but I also believe that some adjustments need to made for him to be effective. If he is going to be the starter, build the offense to his strengths.
     
  11. 101Coast

    101Coast Points Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 1:01 PM
    #12
    The offenses for both teams were similar. The 2009 team did not have a potent running game. I think it was Joe McKnights last year and Allan Bradfords junior year. I think Joe went just over 1000 yds and Bradford maybe half that. Just the two runningbaks. That was one of the years where the backfield was loaded with big names but not everybody got carries.

    This 2018 team has 3 runningbacks who will surpass that 2009 group, collectively.

    Barkley in 2009 was like, yeah, he's gonna be good.

    JT in 2018 is like, yeah, he isn't that good.

    This is the biggest difference for me when comparing the two. Early on, most posters on here were on the JT future wagon. Now, more are seeing his flaws and doubting him. It's a little early, but, there are some things that may not be correctable. I know people don't like to hear it, but I saw him play scared when nobody else did. Then, some talked about that the last couple games.

    When Barkley played as a Freshman, most of us felt he was the one. The whole season. That is the difference.
     
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  12. 101Coast

    101Coast Points Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 1:05 PM
    #13
    It's said that JT called his own plays in high school. I think that's why he has those hail mary plays all the time. It worked for him in high school because maybe his guys were just way better than the other guys. We saw that here too in those first few games. They worked. Now everybody knows. He needs to move away from that and play within this offense.
     
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  13. qqqqqqqman

    qqqqqqqman Junior Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 1:39 PM
    #14


    Totally agree.....t's pretty much all about THAT.

    Most of the negatives about JT are due to OLine play and scheme/play calling.

    -- OLine weak in several phases....occasional positives, but very spotty. Allows too much pressure and too many woeful snaps that put the QB in a bind right off the bat. His tendency to throw off the back foot may arise from being pressured and not comfortable in the (supposed) "pocket". When given time, he throws some pretty balls.

    -- Our passing game scheme is way too simple and basic. It's like "JT, look for anyone who gets open and throw it to him." Except, with our schemes/routes, nobody is open much. I mean, isn't it just WEIRD how rarely a WR is actually open, due to a designed play?? We also don't use the TEs to any advantage and we don't utilize quick hitting slants and curls.....just back-shoulders and bombs all day long.

    -- Our offense has no imagination, attack, or purposeful design. We just run and throw....with no idea on how to ATTACK weak spots or force the D to change. Gawd, when you go to Sunday and watch The Pros....wow, so much difference in how they attack and scheme for advantages, and DESIGN things.

    Anyway, yeah, JT's results and play have been less-than-stellar....but it's a team game and his team kinda sucks in many respects.....<cough, cough,...coaching>
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 6:23 PM
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  14. GoSC27!

    GoSC27! Points Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 5:50 PM
    #15
    Finally someone who gets it! Fix the Oline, get better play calling, change out the QB coach and you will see a big improvement. Also for those looking for the short passes, defenses are stacking the LOS, and they are reading the screen pass all the way. On one screen pass to Carr or Malepai all the Oline was out front, but no one blocked the linebacker that was shadowing the running back. Again, great play by our inept Oline. I don’t care who’s behind center, eventually those 3 factors above will made any QB look bad.
    Fight On!
     
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  15. reaLchaZZZy

    reaLchaZZZy Junior Member


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    Nov 9, 2018 at 7:41 PM
    #17
    Grea
    Great post Q. ✌
     
  16. travyav

    travyav Junior Member


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    Nov 10, 2018 at 6:48 AM
    #18
    Who has the nerve to bash Matt? The guy was a great college Qb and a great person. He stuck around for his senior year and honored his commitment to his school. I don't know how anyone could bash Barkley. He and Marquise were unstoppable. I loved how they used to throw the deep ball on the first play of the game. Everyone knew it was coming and still couldn't stop it. Remember that ASU loss, he threw for 345 to Marquis alone, if he would have caught that Hail Mary it would have been the greatest performance by a QB and a WR and we would still be talking about it.
     
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  17. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


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    Nov 10, 2018 at 8:52 AM
    #19
    I fully agree with this post. Matt was/is a fine young man, a great college QB, and a loyal Trojan. In his last year at USC, he wasn’t as successful because he spent most of his time running for his life from the pass rush and having to throw into coverage just to complete a pass, much like JT is this year.

    The year before he was one of the best in the nation.
     
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  18. Pudly76

    Pudly76 Points Member


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    Nov 10, 2018 at 8:57 AM
    #20
    There are murmurs out of Buffalo that Matt May start this week...good luck Matt!
     
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