Interesting Recruiting Review

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by heyrev, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. Interesting Recruiting Review
    heyrev

    heyrev Junior Member


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    #1
    I recently spent way too much time scanning the last 20 years of USC recruits. Random takeaways:
    1. I was shocked how many kids never saw significant playing time.
    2. I was shocked that just as many 5-star kids bombed as succeeded.
    3. USC has suited up a lot of great football players in their uniform.
    4. Pete Carroll was a great recruiter by rankings, yet #1 - 2 still apply.
    5. I was surprised how many names I didn't know or remember, and I follow the team closely.
    6. I always thought recruiting was an inexact science--I'm sure of it now.
    7. This year's class, if I read the names in 2039, will no doubt have all these same characteristics.
    8. It's fun to be retired and not feel guilty about wasting time.
     
       
  2. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    #2
    I'm with you rev. The pragmatic view is exactly what you have seen. This class is likely no worse than any other class we have had. Recruit rankings are flawed at best. The real value is in identifying talent that you can develop and use. Give me the three star recruit with all of the same physical attributes as the five star, but without the bravado and lazy work ethic...every single day of the week. We have had top 10 recruiting classes every season, yet they get pushed around and outplayed by teams who have had top 50 recruiting classes. The rankings mean shit if you don't have the right players.
     
  3. GoSC27!

    GoSC27! Points Member


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    #3
    While you make good points about class rankings and stars, my concern is that these past 2 years although recruiting has been good it seemed we were more focused on stars then need.
    The main priority should have been the Oline. Although we tried, we missed the boat on several good local prospects, Jason being the exception. Trying and getting it done are 2 different things. Maybe if we put the same effort we put into Bru as we did Oline, we might have had different results. You can say we tried, but at the end of the day the results are not there. Also, unlike other positions, it is hard to just take undersized kids and coach them up. They may have the desire and willingness, but you cannot teach size. But I do agree with the assessment that once you step onto the football field the stars should be meaningless. The cream should rise to the top. Typically the higher star kids should be the cream, but kids mature and peak at different times.
    Harrell is going to have problems if we have injuries in the Oline position. We just don’t have the depth there and that will be one of his biggest challenges.
    Fight On!
     
  4. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    #4
    If you strictly look at physical attributes of the recruits we got versus those of other schools ranked in the top 10...ours are just as good. At every position we got good sized kids for coming out of HS and most of them have the length to be stars. Now it's just a matter of coaching them properly and motivating them to put in the work. Position for position this is a class with some of the tallest/biggest players we have gotten. Also, while I agree we needed more OL recruits our biggest need was in the secondary where we have lost a large portion of our players. We accomplished that task. All but one of them I think are taller than 6'. I remember even during the PC days we were playing CBs who were shorter than that. If they have the speed and technique, we could have a very talented secondary without the baggage we have had recently.
     
  5. Arhedge

    Arhedge Junior Member


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    #5
    I don't know, Zito and rev.

    Five stars are far more likely to succeed than three stars. The numbers aren't close in that regard.

    Highly ranked recruits still need to be coached and developed. If you're struggling to develop four and five star recruits, I'm not sure you can feel great about the likelihood of developing three star recruits.

    It's more important that coaches land the guys they want rather than the guys who are highly ranked. Is that what happened this year? Color me skeptical. I don't think Helton passed on the highly ranked guys. I think those guys simply chose to go elsewhere.

    It's also critical to recruit in the positions of need. Getting a large number of DB's yesterday is helpful in that regard. But at OL, the biggest weakness for some years now? I don't see it.
     
  6. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    #6
    Don't disagree with you on that. I would agree the data show that 5* recruits are more likely to succeed...however, they must be the right 5* guys. We have gotten plenty of them over the past decade and few have panned out. On defense guys like Masina, Biggie, Jack, et al. have had major character flaws. We have also had some misses on offense as well. Darnold wasn't a 5* guy, but he had the right character, physical attributes, and work ethic to far outperform most of the 5* guys from his year group. These are the kids we need. I'll take 85 Darnolds and Nwosus over 85 Marshalls and Jones every day of the week. We need some blue collar kids who are more interested in getting the job done than mouthing off because their egos are bigger than their brains.
     
  7. GoSC27!

    GoSC27! Points Member


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    #7
    We will see about the Oline if we have a spring scrimmage as we have not had one since Helton took over. It always was said that we had too many injuries on the Oline.
    Fight On!
     
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  8. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    #8
    Interestingly, Clemson had the same number of 3* recruits as USC. They had (16) 4*, (12) 3*, and one unranked.

    http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/228/class/2019

    USC had (13) 4*, (12) 3*, and one unranked (Griffiths).

    http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/30/class/2019

    Again, I concur we needed more linemen, but the overall talent is not that far off, if at all from the elite teams in CFB.

    I wonder if Clemson fans are melting down about all those 3* recruits they pulled in.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  9. AlbertoC

    AlbertoC Junior Member


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    #9
    Look at the teams that have won national championships every year in the 2000's.

    Every team was a blue-chip program. Every team had powerhouse recruiting classes. Recruiting may be an inexact science, but it's still a science. Teams with both great coaching and great recruiting classes win national championships. Teams that are missing one or two of these ingredients don't. It's that simple.
     
  10. heyrev

    heyrev Junior Member


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    #10
    My post was merely a general observation, not necessarily a comment on this year's recruiting class. You're right, we have to go after these 5-star kids as they do project better than others. They've earned their ranking and projected status, and statistically they do succeed more than not. I'm also not making excuses for our lower ranking. We missed on a lot of targets. What we have is a group of really good football players (Top 20 is upper echelon) who don't project to as high a potential as year's past. That is a difference from prior classes. But again, "project" is a slippery term. What happens next on the field is everything.
     
  11. TrojanHoss

    TrojanHoss Junior Member


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    #11
    I mostly couldn't stand the guy for reasons we all understand, but Lou "Granny" Holtz said something that I thought had real wisdom. He stated that he would recruit a certain number of 5* and a certain number of 3*. He believed you needed stud 5* guys to be sure, but also 3* "worker bee" grinders. This made sense to me at the time. I have often wondered if we have had too few of the grinder types the last few years.

    Maybe Dabo understands that we well.
     
  12. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


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    Perhaps. The difference between Clemson and USC is not their rosters...it's coaching and gameday preparation. Clemson's staff is more experienced from top to bottom (and they have more staff). We will see what USC's coaching staff can do this season. It's make or break time for them.
     
  13. TXTrojan_itul1

    TXTrojan_itul1 Junior Member


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    #13
    The thing with the 5* or highly ranked 4* guys is the teams in which they are playing. They are shining and looking solid because they end up at Bama, Clemson, tOSt, Mich, L$U, etc. They are going to schools that win big because they are being developed by the staff. I think coaching is the biggest piece on how MOST of these kids end up. Both on the field and out in public.
     
  14. gubo&palanka

    gubo&palanka Points Member

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    #14
    Don't get your hopes up. Last I heard it was a Spring Showcase, held at Howard Jones or the track stadium. Not at the new soccer stadium next to the Coliseum.

    Man, not only do we have soft, incompetent coaching. We don't have any imagination in the operations and SID areas, either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  15. racea911

    racea911 Junior Member


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    #15
    Yeah, that was 2018. They broke.
     
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  16. TXTrojan_itul1

    TXTrojan_itul1 Junior Member


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    #16
    Coaching is everything for us right now, developing and scheming. Good coaches can take these 3* kids and put them in positions to make plays and develop their brain into football genius... if the kid puts in his time and heart into developing.

    Being a Canes fan as well, a 2* kid they had just made the NFL Hall of Fame. So that shows you it is certainly not impossible. In case you're wondering, his name is Ed Reed. Butch Davis is known as a great evaluator of and developer of talent. When those Miami teams of 99-04 were being built, they were just coming out of sanctions.

    Coaching is everything and coaching itself can get you wins. We are being outcoached and talent alone is not always going to win us games. I'm hopeful that our defense is steady enough and can be good. It is the offense that needs a new identity and that has been addressed. I thinth GH will do us some good, may have some growing pains... but I suspect it will be better and just another 8 or 10 points more per game likely gets us 9 or 10 wins. Would have last year anyway.
     
  17. travyav

    travyav Junior Member


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    #17
    More of this ^^^^^^^
    We need coaching. We are recruiting well enough to compete at the highest level if we get coaches that can teach and develop. Most of the 5* correlation with success pertains to the NFL, you can be a really good college football player and never play a down in the NFL. USC will always get their fair share of great recruits, but it doesn't mean much if the recruits aren't developed.
     
  18. Peete2Affholter

    Peete2Affholter Junior Member


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    #18
    I still posit that success in CFB is about 65% your players, and 35% your coaches. You think Swinney or Saban would win big if given, say - Central Michigan's roster? But they would probably do pretty well with USC's roster. It's why we see coaches who are good recruiters, but average coaches stick around for years, while those who have good coaching acumen, but are limited recruiters, either leave for the NFL, or are forever relegated to assistant duties.

    I agree that a truly great class isn't based solely on star rankings, however. Just as an All-Star team is rarely a championship team, I think you have to have a mix of both guys who are elite talents, as well as the work-hards who might not be as talented, but who have that edginess about them, that proverbial chip on their shoulder because they want to prove (to themselves, their coaches, their teammates, to everybody) that they belong on the field with the 5* guys.

    Not everybody is going to be the star running back who gets 25 carries a game, or the receiver getting 10 balls a game. Someone is going to have to relish the unglamorous roles in order for the team to thrive.

    That's why you need that mix. If your whole class was 5* players, EVERYONE believes they should be "the Man" and will inevitably get upset and sulk when they don't see the field. I think most 5* guys, having been the pampered superstar since junior high, are rarely of the mentality that they will willingly relegate themselves to the unglamorous roles.
     
  19. TXTrojan_itul1

    TXTrojan_itul1 Junior Member


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    #19
    I think if Saban's staff or Swiney's staff left for Central Mich... they would have a top 10 recruiting class within a year... HA!! I kid, well, maybe.

    No, I certainly can agree that 5* kids, who have been pampered with attention and luv may not be so inclined to work hard. Or may whine and be the premadonna of the team. It is up to the coach to get their ass over it. Like a Saban, who just gets in their ass and tells them to find a chair. This is what is missing with CH and his "love of my life" stuff. Saban loves his team and whomever is going to help Bama win. He will deal with that "parenting" mentality after the game.
     
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  20. Tunaslam

    Tunaslam Junior Member


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    #20
    Well Coach Carrol proved great recruiting was vital. Coaching them to perform at their perceived high value, a must!
     
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