How come you posters are so horrible at recognizing talent?

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by flyfishintrojan, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. norcalsurfer

    norcalsurfer Points Member


    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2017
    Messages:
    4,925
    Likes Received:
    5,088
    Jan 1, 2020
    given the illegals, it's possible for CA to have 60 million.
     
    TroyWill and flyfishintrojan like this.
  2. drheisenberg

    drheisenberg Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    1,574
    Jan 1, 2020
    LOL. Not a lot of Latinos in football, other than that FSU QB that almost beat us this year...
     
  3. 23 Blast on 3rd and 7

    23 Blast on 3rd and 7 Points Member


    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,110
    Likes Received:
    422
    Jan 1, 2020
    Gee, Fly , I know you're not a troll, but this is the most troll-like thread by a non-troll I have ever seen.

    I'll just add this - could it be maybe you're the who has the issue when it comes to evaluating talent?

    When you end up disagreeing with a couple of dozen different people, maybe they aren't all wrong after all.
     
    drheisenberg likes this.
  4. flyfishintrojan

    flyfishintrojan Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,082
    Likes Received:
    3,180
    Jan 1, 2020
    First off, I have NEVER said California has no talent but that it doesn’t have ENOUGH talent and talent of the proper mix to contend for national titles unless you get an absolute recruiting wizard, a recruiting sorcerer.

    Look at this year. Oregon had a very good team, brought in a ton of California kids and still fell way short.
     
  5. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    2,164
    Jan 2, 2020
    Dr. H., I don't completely agree with Fly's theory, but it doesn't exactly kill his argument by presenting the NFL data overall. There are a lot of variables to be considered in the NFL data to be relevant. How many are all-pros, starters, practice squad guys...and how long have they been in the NFL. If Fly is saying that in the past decade California isn't producing NFL level talent and the majority of the starting players in the NFL from California have been in the league for ten years, that doesn't exactly refute his argument.

    I will say that when it comes to skill position players - QBs, WRs, CBs; California is producing outstanding talent. I think it's in the trenches where California lags behind. We just do not see the density of superstar talent from the OL, DL, and I'd even say RB positions anymore. Given the number of Black players in California, we should see a higher number making it to the AA teams and Pro Bowls in the NFL. We did the research when this topic came up last year. Georgia has the highest number and percentage of Blacks in their population...and recently has yielded the highest number and percentage of highly rated recruits out of HS, especially in the trenches. For many of the reasons already pointed out in this thread...and I have spent more than half my life living in states like Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Texas...the lifestyles are just very different from those in California. Cultures are different depending on where you live in the country. On Sundays, I would be invited to homes after church to eat things like fried chicken, mashed potatoes, corn casserole, macaroni and cheese, cornbread, etc. Diets are very different from California diets. It's just reality so when you need those big boys in the trenches who can move mountains, you don't want the kids who grow up on Kale, Quinoa, and Salmon. You want the ones who grow up on Fried Chicken, Ribs, Pork Loin, Steak, Sausage, and Bacon.
     
  6. Peete2Affholter

    Peete2Affholter Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,759
    Likes Received:
    1,735
    Jan 2, 2020
    I dunno, man - the Church's Chickens and Roscoe's and KFCs I knew when I lived in Long Beach always seemed very well-patronized.... :)

    But yes, overall culture in California is that football, while still popular, is not the all-consuming religion it is in the South and Midwest. Athletic kids in California play all kinds of sports, and many parents don't want their sons playing football due to fear of CTE and just injuries in general. Even if your kid looks all-world in football, it's likely he can be a superstar in many other sports if he's that athletically gifted, and quite a few choose basketball, track, baseball, and even soccer.

    But to address fly's argument - no high-profile CFB team succeeds exclusively from home-grown talent. The best teams are able to poach the best talent from all over the country.
     
  7. The Garage Mahal

    The Garage Mahal Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    140
    Jan 2, 2020
    Not what you asked.

    You asked for someone to name names of big, fast California running backs. By implying that their physical prowess doesn't directly translate to star performance, you yourself acknowledge that size and speed metrics are a fraction of production.

    These are just the running backs alone from California out of the 337 players invited per year to the Combine. So, let's assume there are 30 running backs invited to the combine a year. Of the top third, ~10% come from California. And, I'll add, these are the elite, most productive backs, most physically suited to play pro ball in the country. 30 players out of 130 programs that all carry, what, 4 running backs?

    Sit your old tired ass down.
     
  8. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    2,164
    Jan 2, 2020
    They are...but damn, everything is twice as expensive in California. You can get those big meal deals in Georgia for less than 7 bucks...in California, you're paying more the 10. Minimum wage in Georgia is like 7.50...it's like going up to 15 in California isn't it?

    This kind of begs the question, why do we not see more Latinos in football? Given the sheer percentage of population, there should be more Latinos in college sports than African-Americans. Understand Latinos generally prefer baseball and soccer...but I imagine there are plenty of big and tall Latinos who could make D1 college teams. Maybe it's a good moneyball research idea. Nobody is recruiting or developing Latinos for college football, unless they are a kicker. It's an untapped resource that California can exploit.
     
    flyfishintrojan likes this.
  9. Peete2Affholter

    Peete2Affholter Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,759
    Likes Received:
    1,735
    Jan 2, 2020
    There aren't many Latinos in CFB (or the NFL), because, like many groups of Asians, they, on the average, aren't as big and tall and heavy as Caucasians or African Americans. But participation in high school sports like football, is certainly not lagging. Some entire high school football rosters in Southern California are all Latino players.

    It's also socio-cultural in that while Latinos are a large percentage of California's population, they're quite underrepresented in college in general, let alone in college sports.

    That said, look up the rosters of many California college's men's soccer teams - they're as heavily Latino as basketball teams are heavily black.
     
  10. norcalsurfer

    norcalsurfer Points Member


    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2017
    Messages:
    4,925
    Likes Received:
    5,088
    Jan 2, 2020
    CA has the largest Asian population (and by a wide margin). Asian parents don't steer their kids to sports as much as the parents of other races do. An Indian kid is more likely to dominate the black kid in a spelling contest than on the basketball court

    [​IMG]
     
  11. flyfishintrojan

    flyfishintrojan Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,082
    Likes Received:
    3,180
    Jan 2, 2020
    I would almost buy that, but for Max Montoya, Jim Plunkett, Tom Fears, Luis Hernandez, Tony Gonzales, and Anthony Munoz.

    With the sheer number of Latinos out there, there must be some big tough rugged kids. There have bern other really good Latino O linemen too.
     
  12. 87trojan

    87trojan Points Member


    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2019
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    149
    Jan 2, 2020
    I think it is more a development thing here in California. Kids in the Southeast are exposed to high level football at a very young age. It is all consuming thing for them. Not so much here in California. There are other sports, and interests that pull kids away here.

    I really think the thing to look at from an elite player standpoint is this.

    In SEC country you have Florida as your big fish state with states like Louisiana, Alabama, and Georgia also turning out elite talent in big numbers relative to their population base.

    Then look at Pac 12 country. Sure California produces elite talent. However Arizona, Oregon and Washington Football produces far, far less elite talent than those SEC states I mentioned.

    Give me the 4 or 5 star kid from Georgia, Bama, or Lousiana all day over a 4 or 5 star kid from Washington, Oregon or Arizona. The level of competition that kid has played against in the Southeast is MILES AWAY BETTER than those states in the Pac 12 footprint.
     
  13. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    2,164
    Jan 3, 2020
    In many years there are not any 5 star kids coming out of Washington, Oregon, or Arizona...or Utah, New Mexico, Colorado, Idaho for that matter. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I think that Georgia had more 5 star athletes than the entire west coast combined this year.

    While I agree that the south and Midwest have far more elite football athletes, they also do have a bit more competition for that talent in close proximity. Aside from USC and UCLA, there are not any schools really close enough that they should be losing kids to outside programs. I think Oregon and Washington are further away from LA than Texas and probably Louisiana. USC should be getting their pick from their own backyard. They are the ones who see these kids every day. Maybe they see the kids and don't think they are as good as advertised??? I don't know, but that might be their thinking. Either way, the fans think they are good so you probably should get a bunch of them.
     
  14. uscvball

    uscvball Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    9,988
    Likes Received:
    15,663
    Jan 3, 2020
    Bigger taller Latinos are definitely more on the rare side. Not just SoCal, but definitely the Central Valley as well.
    Considering the overall population of NFL players in history, a handful doesn't exactly make your argument. Latinos make up just under 20% of the population, but just 2% of NFL rosters. Getting to the NFL is a process and requires a pipeline which has to include 3 years of college. Once high school is over, the Latino football population isn't moving on at the same rate.

    There are reasons for that however. It's a VERY family oriented community. There is pressure to be successful NOW, right after high school, not necessarily going off to college that many may not be able to afford. Their parents and perhaps grandparents have worked hard and tend to see the short-term as opposed to what can happen over the long-haul. Young men in the family are expected to contribute and help the family. For young players, if they don't see other Latinos in the league, why pursue that path? There has to be a belief and a commitment to make it happen.

    Over time, I think there will be more Latinos in the NFL. The league needs to help make that happen but the model for the NFL is perform and you're in, otherwise, we don't care. There is like one day the NFL devotes to Hispanic/Latino players but does anyone really know about it? I think most fans are more aware of "pink" days, etc.

    Futbol is #1. It's cheap, doesn't require the same amount of practice time, cost, or equipment. It favors small, slim, speedy for the most part over big road graders. Plus, the action is non-stop. Football is a LOT of stop action, review, etc. It can be boring for a live audience. That doesn't sell tickets in Latino communities.
     
  15. norcalsurfer

    norcalsurfer Points Member


    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2017
    Messages:
    4,925
    Likes Received:
    5,088
    Jan 3, 2020
    I can't recall the last time the Rose Bowl was sold out in the regular season but there was a sell out/over capacity for the Manchester United-Barcelona exhibition game and 2013 CONCACAF championship.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And depending on what teams shows up, it can be a packed house in Big Ten stadiums too

    https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2018/07/28/liverpool-man-utd-michigan-stadium/857627002/
     
  16. zitorocks

    zitorocks Junior Member


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    2,164
    Jan 3, 2020
    I think the two areas I highlighted are the keys. Latinos all over the world love baseball. 1) Because you do not need to be huge to play and 2) Because you see so many Latino superstars in MLB. The NFL has the Rooney Rule to ensure that qualified black coaches get a shot at head coaching jobs, well why aren't they going out and not just marketing their other minority players, but getting out and helping to build a sustainable bench starting in youth football in primarily Latino communities. It's a damn shame that we have seen some great Latino NFL players and yet they have never really been celebrated as such. Not in ways that other minorities have been celebrated for breaking barriers in sports.
     

Share This Page