How come you posters are so horrible at recognizing talent?

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by flyfishintrojan, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. flyfishintrojan

    flyfishintrojan Junior Member


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    #21
    None of the Pac 12 coaches teach proper blocking fundamentals but Iowa, the 5th best team in the Big 12 does. Good to know.

    Lame.
     
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  2. TrojanDrive

    TrojanDrive Junior Member


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    #22
    We have talent on offense at QB, WRs, and Stepp at RB but OL unit is sub par. We do look slow on defense aside from maybe Hufunga. No one on the d line jumps off the screen like they did in the CFP games. Maybe Tufele at times but not consistently wreaking havoc. The talent differential is most glaring on the D line, LBs, and DBs. The players in the CFP games looked faster, bigger, and more aggressive.

    A 4 or 5 star high school player is just that. A high school player with above average talent that was on the camp radar.

    A less heralded 3 star WR might just have a .05 second slower 40 time and 1 inch shorter in HS than a 4 or 5 star.

    If the 3 star arrives on campus then constantly wakes up at 5am then develops a ridiculous work ethic in the weight room, running & conditioning, perfecting routes, studying film, and stays focused on getting better each day. Then throw in good coaching, good strength & conditioning coaches, and competitive atmosphere.

    Do you think the 3 star can close that gap in college between him and the 4 & 5 stars guys who may not be putting in the work or have the proper coaching in college? A kid who puts in work may be able to get a few hundreds of a second faster or put on 20 lbs of muscle to negate that 1 inch height differential. Is this possible?

    I know it is because we see it happening in front of our eyes.

    Then you have the case of the 4&5 stars that go to places like LSU, OSU, and Clemson where the coaching, strength & conditioning, and toughness factor is on point. Those kids end up leaving USC's 4&5 stars behind in the dust.

    High school ratings don't mean squat once jump up to the college level. A 3 star can catch you and a 4&5 star can leave you in the dust.

    Imhir Marsette was a 3 star WR coming out of HS. He made all our players look like they were in quicksand. He looked like Deion Sanders out there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  3. heyrev

    heyrev Junior Member


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    #23
    Good post. I'll only add this two cents:
    If you put fresh eyes on our roster with a solid, competent staff of evaluators, I'm saying USC is back in a matter of 2 years tops. There's talent there but it lacks a cohesive identity and confidence. No way Iowa is that much better but they sure looked like it.
     
  4. flyfishintrojan

    flyfishintrojan Junior Member


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    #24
    How do you make kids faster? Using two examples, Etienne and Smith Marsette, you hit those guys in traffic and boom you could have 6 points. They split tacklers and outleg everyone. We don’t have that.
     
  5. heyrev

    heyrev Junior Member


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    #25
    Confident aggressive kids play faster. I realize that's overly simplistic but it's true. Our defense is a great example. There's a ton of raw speed there but they play cautious, confused football REACTING to their opponent instead of dictating the action and imposing their will. There is very little penetration of LOS and too much chasing. All that reduces and nullifies speed, or certainly the look of it.
     
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  6. flyfishintrojan

    flyfishintrojan Junior Member


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    #26
    Really? Who might those blazers be? Name names.
     
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  7. CFB Fan

    CFB Fan Junior Member


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    #27
    FWIW on one of Etienne's long runs a tOSU secondary player tried to make an arm tackle (grabbed his shirt) when he could have just dove and taken him down with a grab around the waist.
     
  8. TrojanDrive

    TrojanDrive Junior Member


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    #28
    The only true blazer is Christon but Harrell and Helton don't know how to use him properly because GH is only thinking pass.

    Even when they tried to run him they ran him up the middle which makes no sense at his smaller size. That kid should be getting 2-3 jet sweeps a game to get outside in space, lining up as slot receiver for quick hit passes, and returning kicks like Marsette.

    Guys like Rey Maulega, Chris Claiborne, Ronald Jones, Marqise Lee, Juju Smith, etc all jumped off the TV screen. We don't have that right now if we are being objective.

    Did you see that Epeneza kid from Iowa? He looked like an NFL player already. He stuck out like a sore thumb compared to our defensive players.
     
  9. flyfishintrojan

    flyfishintrojan Junior Member


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    #29
    Your point?
     
  10. flyfishintrojan

    flyfishintrojan Junior Member


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    #30
    Another poster said we have “a ton of raw speed,” but can’t name those kids.

    Okey dokey. I am dating five drop dead gorgeous models.

    Hey this game is fun!
     
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  11. drheisenberg

    drheisenberg Junior Member


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    #31
    This one post pony again? If California kids are so small and slow why are the top 2 high school football programs in So Cal? It’s not the stock, it’s what you do with the stock. We have Easter amazing talent in the Helton era. You think Carr coached up at a good school wouldn’t be a monster?
     
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  12. Oregon Trojan

    Oregon Trojan Points Member


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    #32
    I don't think you couls equate size to how much a player weighs. You can go through rosters a conclude that weights are consistent. It is more the eye rest. The proverbial "first guy off the bus" comments. You look at SEC and to some extend Big 10 and it is like night and day to the Pac 12. I can't figure it out either but it is there.
     
  13. flyfishintrojan

    flyfishintrojan Junior Member


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    #33
    How the hell do you coach up a small slow running back?

    This I gotta hear. BTW, RB is a purely instinctual position, one of the few that doesn’t require a bunch of coaching.

    You’re comical. Steven Carr, a monster?
    You can’t make this up. And of course, scholarship high schools are the key to great college football.
     
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  14. drheisenberg

    drheisenberg Junior Member


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    #34
    How does any runner get faster, Sherlock? Through practice. How does anyone get stronger? Through time ina gym. My guess is you are about 3 bills and know nothing about fitness.
     
  15. Oregon Trojan

    Oregon Trojan Points Member


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    #35
    I think Amon Ra fits that bill and I'm hearing positive things about Bru McCoy. We have talent but the OL has to see their shortcoming and work hard as a unit to committ themselves to protect QB and control LOS for RB. They must fome together and it should start now. Who will step up and be the leader?
     
  16. 4thamp1

    4thamp1 Junior Member


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    #36
    Just one question. Did you ever play offensive line?

    USC was 9th in rushing defense in the Pac 12 at 162 ypg. Utah was #1 at 56 ypg. Do you think for a moment that the defensive linemen might be lacking in technique (pad level) to take on drive blocking? The three QB sneaks in a row were just drive blocks. Yet, Iowa pushed USC downfield because of tired D-linemen standing instead of staying low to stand up their man. So your sarcasm aside, do you have anything to offer but a lame remark?
     
  17. yah20002

    yah20002 Junior Member


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    #37
    CJ Verdell? 1st team All-PAC-12 RB. Somehow, Oregon coached up that small, slow kid.

    I'm in agreement with USC's overall lack of elite team speed. The Iowa receiver (Marsette) was looking like Bolt out there. Speed wasn't the reason why Iowa punk'd USC, though. Also, why don't we see ITS's speed on display? Remember, he won the fastest man contest at the Nike Opening a couple years ago. That was against the top prospects from all over the country.

    Jonah Williams, David Long, Vita Vea, Najee Harris, Rashard Penny, Wyatt Davis, Grant Calcaterra (just to name a few of the California HS players that have recently been high NFL draft picks or All-Conference type performers at other schools). Jonah (2018), and Wyatt (2019), earned 1st team All-American honors. When was the last time a USC O-linemen made an All-American team? Calcaterra (4*) was a 1st team All-Big 12 TE (before having to quit due to concussions), in 2018. Sorry, but they wouldn't have had the same success under Helton. Most likely, we would be talking about how USC keeps recruiting a bunch of overrated 4* and 5* players. The proof is in the pudding, because we've seen multiple 4* and 5* (OL, TE, RB, DL, CB) come to SC and suddenly look slow, and unatheletic. Remember how everyone was so excited about AE's potential last year?? Dude looked like a (5*) heat seeking missile. Now, he's being put in the bust category.

    There will always be overrated and underrated players in every recruiting class, at all schools across the country. Many things factor into a players success and failure, when transitioning from HS to CFB. Whatever the reason (listed my personal assessment above), there's a huge difference between the production CPC got out of his recruits, and what we're seeing now. Personally, I don't buy the notion that this team is filled with 80 overrated/misevaluated prospects. Something else has to be in play here.
     
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  18. TrojanDrive

    TrojanDrive Junior Member


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    #38
    Our 4&5 star high school recruits are getting caught by 3 star recruits who are being developed properly while 4&5 star recruits that are being developed at OSU LSU, Clemson etc are leaving our guys in the dust.

    No, we aren't mis-evaluating on a regular basis.

    I see the issue as two fold:

    1. Helton puts too much emphasis on skill positions while not landing elite OL & DL guys.
    2. Once players get to USC they aren't being developed like they are at LSU, Clemson, and OSU.

    NFL players aren't made in high school. The foundation may be there meaning the natural talent, size, and speed but those 3-4 years in the middle with college is a long time where 3 star recruits can become great, 4&5 star recruits fizzle, and certain 4&5 star recruits rocket to the moon ready for NFL stardom.

    There are quite a few variables including individual work ethic & desire, coaching, training methodologies, athletic upside etc. USC is missing a key piece somewhere in there.
     
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  19. CFB Fan

    CFB Fan Junior Member


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    #39
    There were equally as bad tackling techniques on display in that CFP semifinal game. They weren’t all worldly.
     
  20. racea911

    racea911 Junior Member


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    #40
    Dude, your ridiculous argument was blown out of the water 2 weeks ago by none other than Urban Freaking Meyer. Yet, here you are starting it up again. This isn't a matter of you out-arguing someone on a forum and feeling vindicated in your theory. It is Urban Double Effing Meyer destroying your argument. Move on. It is over. Find a new theory. Get a new hobby.

    " Urban Meyer, interestingly, pushed back on the idea that USC isn’t a great job. His reasoning was pretty simple.

    “I think it all starts and ends with recruiting,” Meyer said during a Monday appearance on The Herd. "I think USC is not a glamour job. I think that’s an elite, elite job. Why? Within two hours of your campus you can get the best players in America, or as good as any.”

    Meyer made the same point about Georgia, calling the football in Atlanta and the surrounding suburbs as good as anywhere."
     

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