Bonfire of cash on campus

Discussion in 'GarryP's Trojan Huddle' started by AtownSC, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. Bonfire of cash on campus
    AtownSC

    AtownSC Points Member


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    #1
       
  2. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


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    USC doesn't have the revenues to hire a Saban or Harbaugh. USC is not one of the top revenue generators, compared with SEC schools or places like Texas or tOSU.

    The Helton extension was baffling. The Rose Bowl win was a lucky fluke, caused by JuJu's amazing 4th Quarter and some amazing passes by Darnold, not Helton's coaching. USC started downhill when JuJu left.
     
  3. Arhedge

    Arhedge Junior Member


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    This guy doesn't know what Clay Helton's buyout is, and -- I suspect -- neither does anybody on this board. You can extend his contract through 2023 without guaranteeing all of that money. This allows you to give him a visible sign of support while also making it possible to fire the guy. And being that the contract is not public, we simply don't know what it says.

    But we can guess. I'd be stunned if Clay's contract guarantees his salary through 2023. There was no market for him elsewhere; only USC would have hired him in the first place, and nobody else was looking to fix our mistake by taking him off our hands. Giving him an extension with guaranteed money through 2023 when nobody else wanted him is equivalent to a fast-food restaurant paying the drive-through guy 90k per year. Why would anybody even think about doing it?

    I don't believe that even USC's administration is stupid enough to give him guaranteed money through 2023, especially because Lynn Swann already knew that the guy was, at best, an average football coach and was probably well below average. Honestly, anybody that knows football knew that before this season started, and Lynn Swann may not know anything about being an AD, but he certainly knows good football.
     
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  4. Tod78

    Tod78 Junior Member


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    I just don't buy the logic that if anything good happens, like the Rose Bowl win, it's just a fluke having nothing to do with the coach while anything bad is entirely 100% the fault of one man.

    At a very simple level, CH has been head coach for three seasons. He has one great Rose Bowl win, one Pac 12 title, and one disastrous season that could get even worse. Even the two good years had ugly losses, but I'm guessing that the two good years give Helton enough good will to survive this bad season. Maybe not.
     
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  5. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


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    Correct, USC doesn’t have the revenues that some of the other traditional football powers have. But I’m pretty sure that they do have the revenues and resources to pay a Saban-like salary if they wanted to. It may not be the wisest thing to do and I doubt that they would commit to that much in annual salary, as it may involve delving into revenue sources outside of the direct football revenues, but the school is not exactly destitute when it comes to overall revenue.

    If some of the big donors started showing up at USC admin expressing their displeasure with the state of their beloved football team, Admin would find the money to pay the coach that they want.

    But I don’t think they need to pay a Saban-like salary to get a good coach to come here. With a little research and effort, they can bring in a guy with a history of success at smaller schools for around the salary that they paid Sark, or possibly less, similar to what ND did with Brian Kelly. They’d need to come up with Helton’s buyout, and Arhedge is correct, we don’t know exactly how much that is. It’s likely a substantial amount, but not likely the $15 mil mentioned in the article.

    Yes, extending Helton at that point was not a good idea. But if the powers that be at USC are motivated to see a quality team on the field, the Coliseum seats filled, and the historic football tradition upheld, they can rectify this situation.

    And they should.
     
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  6. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


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    I guess you didn't watch the RB game. Go back and get a tape. It will be informative.

    I've watched that 4th Quarter many times and I still don't know how we won. Sam and JuJu pretty much won it despite coaching. Between JuJu's circus catches--remember the one that bounced off another player--and the PIs he drew (3 in a row at the end), plus Sam getting him the ball...that won't happen very often. You may call it great coaching to direct Sam to bounce the ball of someone's helmet--I consider that a bit lucky.

    JuJu left and the next year we were all wondering why Sam "regressed." The answer--those passes into traffic that JuJu came down with were intercepted the next year.

    So to give a guy an extension based on that game? Uh, no.
     
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  7. Merlin4SC

    Merlin4SC Junior Member


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    #7
    SC Football nets about $47M per year on average in today's dollars. Bama was something like $59M, Shorthorns $87M, yada yada, yada, but that doesn't mean we have to hire someone at 47/59 of Saban's salary which would be $6.4M. In fact we deserve to have to overpay for a while due to the penny pinching attitude of Pat Haden - if we are serious about turning this thing around that is. I think they better be prepared for a total base comp package of at least $5.25M with definite incentives added on. 10+ wins = 250K, bowl game = 100K, Pac-12 = 250K, CFP = 500K, and $1.0M+ if you make it to the NC game, but with no automatic renewals .

    That is if they want to attract someone who can actually do those things year in and year out. And they have to be willing to give him everything he wants, no penny pinching on staff. Meaning Tosh Lupoi if we can get him should get in the mid-high million range as DC. Same with an OC. And pay Drevno and BKU their due if retained. But this would all be yet another argument in favor of Kyle Whittingham who I think could get us to the CFP on occasion and be a regular fixture in the Pac-12 game.

    And as to the above post on the RB win, we tried our best to give the game away in the third quarter and not sure how we hung on to win either but it was barely by 3 points at the very end, as close as you can come to not winning and still get lucky. Same could be said for the Pac-12 game over Furd.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  8. denali15

    denali15 Points Member


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    No, they don't. Saban makes something like $11M/year, plus has assistants getting many times what we pay our guys. Have you seen the assistants Saban hires? We aren't paying someone like Kirby Smart as an assistant. Someone posted here that SEC coordinators can make $2.5M. We don't pay HCs much more than that. Even CPC didn't get more than $5M, I believe.
     
  9. AtownSC

    AtownSC Points Member


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    You have higher faith in USC admin than I do. This is the same group that was still paying Lane Kiffin while Bama and Kiff thoroughly embarrassed us on a national stage.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2015/06/why_lane_kiffin_didnt_get_raise.amp

    If Haden gave Helton a 5-yr guarantee, while in extension talks you don't think Helton and agent demanded at least some of his extension guaranteed? Sure we don't know if its a full payout or what but I'm sure it'll effect the number we can throw out on our next hire.
     
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  10. Tod78

    Tod78 Junior Member


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    I was at the RB game, and at the Cal game. The 4th quarter of the RB was about as miraculous as that 6 minute collapse against Cal. Deciding which to blame on the coach and which to say the coach had nothing to do with is a matter of perspective. It looks to me like people see what they want to see to support their agenda.
     
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  11. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


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    I believe they would if this were a situation like ND had in Kelly’s down year/years, where it was obviously a rebuilding year and where Kelly was likely to get them back on track.

    But Helton’s offense is lost at the moment and he’s showing no signs that he will be able to get it back on track. We saw signs of the problems last year as well, but we still had Sam Darnold and enough raw talent to get us by lesser teams. We still have the talent, but the lack of leadership, an effective offensive scheme, and player development is causing a downward spiral that is showing no signs of slowing.

    This isn’t a matter of good will. Plenty of people like Helton as a person (myself included) and appreciate the relative success of his first two years. This is about stopping the slide that it doesn’t appear Helton has the ability to stop.

    If something doesn’t change quickly, USC football may well find itself in a pit of mediocrity that could take years to climb out of.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
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  12. Tod78

    Tod78 Junior Member


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    I hear ya. But when people say we can afford to hire an up and coming coach who has been successful at a smaller program, or that we can afford to hire an up and coming coordinator who is ready to take on the top job I hear them saying that we can hire Ted Tollner, Larry Smith, or Paul Hackett.

    I started watching during the John McKay Golden Age, and saw the Pete Carroll Golden Age, and all the mediocrity in between and after. The conclusion I draw is that putting together that kind of magic is voodoo and alchemy, not science. It's not so easy to do that every goofball with a computer knows all the right answers.
     
  13. oldtrojan93

    oldtrojan93 Junior Member


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    Or else what - he'll go to one of the other schools who want him as their head coach?
     
  14. BlemBlam

    BlemBlam Junior Member


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    Denali, my old friend. You may need to rewatch that game again.
    There weren’t three PI calls on that last drive, there was two, and neither one involved Ju Ju. The first was against Deontay Burnett, and the second was against Darreus Rogers

    Ju Ju did make one great catch though, I think the drive before when he hauled in a pass from Sam and kept his foot in bounds
     
  15. Troy70

    Troy70 Junior Member


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    Afraid BOT don’t care if Coli empty
     
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  16. Tod78

    Tod78 Junior Member


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    As I recall JuJu was out injured for that last drive.
     
  17. DaFireMedic

    DaFireMedic Junior Member


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    I, too, became a USC fan during the McKay era (1972 is the earliest season that I actually remember anything from) and lived through the 20+ years of mediocrity before PC. And I fully agree with the concerns about another Tollner, Smith, or Hackett.

    Your post is correct, there are no guarantees regardless of who you hire. But I don’t write it off entirely to voodoo or luck or anything else like that. It takes careful consideration and research to find the guy that gives you the best chance of building a winning program and getting USC back among the elites. And I don’t see that USC has done that with its last several hires.

    I feel that the best chance for success lies with a coach who has a history of success at a non-traditional football power, such as a Kyle Whittingham, the Iowa State guy, or a Chris Peterson when he was at BSU. There are only a handful of position coaches that I would even consider, such as Dave Aranda, and then only with the support for him to hire a top OC and assistants.

    I’ll probably get flamed for saying this, but truth be told, Larry Smith was actually a good hire that didn’t work out.
     
  18. flyfishintrojan

    flyfishintrojan Junior Member


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    This is a fukking crossroads for USC football. We are either going to go big, or honestly we should go home. This isn’t Illinois or Boston College.
     
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  19. Tod78

    Tod78 Junior Member


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    They were all good hires that didn't work out. You can justify almost all the hires that didn't work out as being the kind of hires that successful programs do all the time. Hiring a head coach who was successful at a smaller school, like Larry Smith or Ted Tollner, is a very common strategy. Hiring a successful coordinator to step up and take the top job, like Paul Hackett, is a very common strategy. When a very successful coach leaves, promoting one of his assistants to try and carry on the same program, like Kiffen or Sarkesian, is also a very common strategy.

    The two biggest stretches in the last 60 years have been McKay (two year assistant whose head coach was not particularly successful) and Carroll (NFL washout). The alumni hated both hires at the time.
     
  20. gubo&palanka

    gubo&palanka Points Member

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    Interesting POV. But I would encourage you to read the piece on espn about the fall of Petrino.

    http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/25247121/louisville-cardinals-fire-bobby-petrino-rapid-fall-lamar-jackson-departure

    You will see a lot of similarities with our own situation.

    Number one similarity being ... a star player (Jackson) whose play covered up a lot of cracks in the foundation.

    When he left, there was no hiding the poor state of the program. Same situation at USC? Check.

    Nepotism? Check.

    Players questioning the physical and mental toughness of the program? Check.

    Don't feel bad for Clay. He will be fine. But do you honestly think he'll turn up as head coach at Colorado or some other D1 program?

    Do you think Alabama will hire him, as they have many other SC castoffs?
     

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