Ayden Hector commits to Stanford

Discussion in 'Trojan Recruiting' started by ErikMcKinney, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Ayden Hector commits to Stanford
    ErikMcKinney

    ErikMcKinney Administrator

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    #1
    CB Ayden Hector commits to Stanford. Held an early offer from USC and his father played for the Trojans.
     
       
  2. USCVel

    USCVel Junior Member


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    Erik,
    I for one feel that Helton has been treated a bit harshly by the fans the last season and a half. I thought his first two seasons were very impressive (winning the Rose Bowl and then the Pac-12) and did not feel a single bad season should have led to his firing. But the way recruiting fell off a cliff last season (salvaged a bit by the return of Steele, McCoy and addition of Richmond), and continues to plummet this season leads me to believe that his time as the leader of the program is limited. I just don't see how USC can compete at the level we expect with the types of recruits we are now bringing in. Do you disagree? Is there any possibility that recruiting would turn around in time to keep the talent at a level necessary to compete with the national powers?
     
  3. ErikMcKinney

    ErikMcKinney Administrator

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    I can't really find anything in here I disagree with. I do think Helton was criticized too harshly, too quickly by some of the more vocal parts of the fanbase. That being said, I think we're at a true tipping point over the next two weeks. This program needs a shot of energy right now to get recruiting going, and I think the only two ways that happens is by winning out, or bringing in a new coach. Recruiting is completely stagnant right now, and that is purely because recruits don't see an upward trend and the ability for USC to compete for national championships moving forward. USC isn't going to be in the CFP this season, but I do think that beating Notre Dame and winning the Rose Bowl this year would bring some of the bigger targets into this class (I'm not saying that's likely, just that it exists as a possibility). I don't think you make a change at head coach simply because of how recruiting is going. I think the only way recruiting ties in is the fact that recruits aren't buying in because of what is happening on the field. We've seen that Clay Helton can recruit just fine when his program is winning. But we've seen that it's been really tough to sell the program to high-profile local recruits in this class. And when you aren't getting the best Southern California prospects, there is a fundamental issue.
     
  4. VM805

    VM805 Junior Member


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    #4
    The thing that gets me about where these recruits are choosing to commit to is the fact that if they see USC trending downward, how do they see Stanford, Oregon, UW, ASU, or Utah? Neither of these programs are even close to competing with the elites of CFB so the the problem has to be Clay Helton and the stench that is permeating around USC.
     
  5. Troy70

    Troy70 Junior Member


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    #5
    Recruits don’t think Clay last
     
  6. USCVel

    USCVel Junior Member


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    I agree to a certain extent. But it appears to me the problem is impacting a bunch of Pac-12 schools. In years past, we would expect to be pulling in guys like Flowe, Bijan Robinson, Fields, DJ, Ricks, Ringo, and those types of recruits. Now, they are all heading across the country to play in the SEC. That needs to stop if we are going to be competitive. I am amazed at how many local recruits are ignoring both USC and UCLA (and the rest of the Pac 12) and heading outside the area. If Helton (or a replacement) does not turn that around in this class or the next, we will suffer from a severe talent shortage that will take some time to work out of.
     
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  7. gubo&palanka

    gubo&palanka Points Member

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    #7
    Great point.
     
  8. Hockey10

    Hockey10 Junior Member


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    Can you give credit to us fans who recognized that Helton wasn't a good coach despite winning the Rose Bowl and Pac 12. He was winning due to the talent of the players not because of his coaching abilities. The recruits and their parents saw this as well. Helton isn't developing players due to his S&C & non contact practices, his bad assistant coaches, his Gumbo Offense, and outdated bend but don't break Defense. The players aren't getting drafted as high as they were once projected. He doesn't win because he out game plans the other coaches and then makes the proper adjustments. He wins because of players like Darnold's and Adoree's skills bailing him out. Now top CA. recruits are going to colleges where they can win NC's or get position coaches that will develop them so that they can get drafted in the first round. These things aren't and haven't been happening under Helton. Player's including Darnold regressed under his coaching.
     
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  9. bell

    bell Points Member


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    #9
    ALL HELTON IS ASKING IS FAIRNESS FOR ONCE

    Let's be honest, not all Trojans were thrilled when Helton was first appointed simply because he lacked the big name that some were hoping for. And some of these fans still hold that against him today.

    That anger subsided somewhat after he won the conference and the Rose Bowl which gave a boost to recruiting. We thought we were finally putting the sanction years, Kiffin and Sarkisian behind us and good days were here again.

    Then last season happened. Helton's management style and personality were partly to blame but we cannot ignore injuries or graduation. The legion of Helton haters re-emerged, slamming him with all kinds of invented stories, truth be damned. They may not admit it (harsh opinions stated here can and do find their way outside the campus) but all this contributed to the cloud of uncertainty currently over the program. The result is that the best recruits are leaving town and the others are taking a wait and see attitude.

    But that is what Helton signed up for and it wouldn't be unfair if he was let go sometime soon. Unless, he surprises everybody and wins the rest of the games in a convincing manner (Personally, I want Helton to accomplish this and be the one to return SC to national contention again.)

    That said I don't understand why some feel it necessary to heap unfairness on Helton. If they think his true performance is not bad enough to get him released, then ,maybe he doesn't deserve to be released. I see some of the same thing others complain about but I'm not about to throw out charges without being there to know why things are the way they are.

    Take for example the claim by some that Helton won because of players like Darnold and Jackson. What's wrong with that? What do other coaches, Saban, Sweeney, Meyer included, win with? Do they get on the field and win by themselves? No, they win because, not only do they have elite players, they also have far many more than Helton. If Saban wins without players, why did he feel it necessary to come all the way to California to flip a USC commit? Why doesn't he simply sign any 25 players and win by "coaching them up"?

    Lest we forget, Darnold was not heavily recruited but Helton saw something in him and brought him in making him an early first round pick and a rookie starter. Who's responsible for his development? More recently, he brought in an unknown in Slovis and placed him high on the depth chart which prompted all kinds of negative reactions and accusations from his critics because if he was good enough how come the big programs weren't recruiting him? Now they may be seeing why. Darnold did not regress (how could he?) but his stats may have worsened due to graduation and injuries, things that happen to many. Without development, how are the likes of Pittman and Hufanga looking the way they are? And BTW, while players from other programs are drafted over and under projection, I can't recall too many SC players that fell short of projection.
     
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  10. uscjrl98

    uscjrl98 Junior Member

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    #10
    Posts such as these are part of the problem. Your revisionist history is clouded by your love for Helton. How you can still support a coach that has guided these proud young men to an 8-11 record in their past 19 games is disturbing. I have an idea let's support our players and advocate for their success and stop advocating for a coach who is stripping away the pride and respect that our fans, alums, and players use to enjoy.
     
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  11. Hockey10

    Hockey10 Junior Member


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    I'm sorry to say this is blind loyalty to Helton. The recruits and their parents who pay big money to send their kids to camps and prepare them for college are seeing that Helton and his assistants aren't getting kids prepared for the next level. When one of the captains of the team comes to you and ask for more physical practices there's a problem. When you don't use all your practices there's a problem. Darnold wasn't the starter. He came in off of the bench because it is very well known Helton plays seniority and favorites. Toa shouldn't have been the Center last year, he should have been moved to guard where he could have excelled. Pittman's dad had to get involved because Helton wasn't playing him. Clancy refuses to rotate and involve younger players. I'm sorry to say players like Houston gets dragged around but plays every down. Wole was a 5* recruit who was never developed or played by Helton who is now one of the leading sackers in the country. How many other top 5* & 4* talent has transferred or waisted away. Talent goes to waist or doesn't develop under Helton due to coaches like Calloway, Bradford, Clancy, ect. S&C was a joke. Do you want me to go on or will you just continue to turn a blind eye to how bad Helton has developed players and just look at the previous W-L record?
     
  12. USCVel

    USCVel Junior Member


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    Let's just say I am not overly concerned with whether fans are getting the appropriate amount of "credit" for calling our football coach a bad coach.
     
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  13. bell

    bell Points Member


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    TO USCJRL98 & HOCKEY10

    I don’t see how my post can be seen as in support of Helton. The theme of my post was, regardless of how one feels towards Helton, it’s not appropriate to deny him his due while inventing all kinds of tales just to make him look bad – give a dog a bad name so you can kill it. As I’ve said before and say again: it would not be unjust to fire Helton due to non-performance.

    In the case of Pittman, it was generally known that he was coming from injuries but regardless, shouldn’t Helton get credit for turning him into an All-American caliber receiver if he’s blamed for non-development of others? BTW, when he’s spoken, said Pittman has defended the coaches.

    You say Helton plays seniority but when he (correctly as it now looks) placed Slovis over Fink and Sears on the depth chart, the naysayers found something new to criticize him about. I recall how desperately people came up with the narrative that Helton took over play-calling at BYU in the second half and refused to budge even after Harrell insisted that he’d called all the plays.

    I have no problem with criticizing Helton as long as they are proven facts and the circumstances are known. With all the changes in the staff, one must believe that there are enough people with enough football knowledge not to be guilty of things they are routinely accused of.
     
  14. Hockey10

    Hockey10 Junior Member


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    Oct 16, 2019 at 6:39 PM
    #14
    Just skip over all the negatives of Helton and pretend they didn't happen and make false praises for him. If you want to believe Cam Smith, Sua, Adoree', Darnold got better under Helton go ahead. Name one OL that benefited from Calloway, a DB that benefited from Branford, a DL or any defensive player that has been developed under Clancy's out dated D, and if you think Pittman developed under the gumbo Offense of Tee/ Helton you're misguided. Talent has been waisted and under developed under Helton and I haven't even mentioned the joke of a S&C program he ran. The recruits see it. If you open your eyes and ears you would see and hear it too.
     
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  15. bell

    bell Points Member


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    Oct 16, 2019 at 11:29 PM
    #15
    HERE'S ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT THINGS

    Let's forget about Saban and Sweeney for now and let's look back at the Carroll era. Matt Leinart was tutored for four years by none other than consensus guru QB coach Norm Chow. Yet, his pro career can hardly be described as a success. In fact, a lot of people felt that he would have been drafted higher had he left as a junior, suggesting (not by me) that he regressed. So what do we say, that Norm Chow was not a good QB coach? Mark Sanchez was a 5-star coming out of HS and struggled as a pro going playing for many clubs as a journeyman. Was he a case of not being "coached up"? Lendale White did not have a successful pro career and Bush can only be said to have had a decent pro career even tho they were the crown jewels of Carroll's time at USC. Were they not "coached up"? And there was John David Booty coming out of LA as a hot HS QB (not sure he played for Carroll). Point is a player's PERCEIVED improvement (or lack thereof) is very subjective and more complicated than people who just want to dump on Helton want to admit.
     
  16. Hockey10

    Hockey10 Junior Member


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    Oct 17, 2019 at 5:39 PM
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    Let's ask a few simple questions. Why do you think we are losing with all these top recruits and why do you think most aren't committing or have decommitted? Why are our defensemen not able to tackle, our OL over matched, and special teams play so poor? We'll start with those.
     
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  17. bell

    bell Points Member


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    Oct 17, 2019 at 9:12 PM
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    I THINK THE ANSWERS ARE OBVIOUS

    We're the victims of the sanctions era which we compounded with the mistaken hiring of Kiffin and Sarkisian. The best players in the land, the likes of whom we used to get, are taking a wait-and-see attitude while others are finding fine pasture in the SEC and other conferences. Last season's poor performance and the perception of a dysfunctional athletic dept. haven't been helpful. One more thing that doesn't help is the kind of toxic comments by posters here - you've seen them so I don't need to repeat them here. It would be bad enough if they were proven facts, but many of them are no more than conjectures created to make the coaches look bad and ensure their departure.

    Please don't tell me recruits don't read or rely on them because they get out into the public and contribute to the perception of chaos. How many kids with options would choose a program where the fate of the coaches is unknown? For many of the CA kids, going out of state, like the trending refusal to participate in "meaningless" bowls, is becoming the thing to do. Unfortunately, this will continue until there is a breakthrough on the field or a coaching change.

    Why the poor performance of some of our players? One reason is we overestimate the talents of our players. As noted above, the best CA players are heading east. Or north. Those outside are not coming here. I have seen confounding tackling at other programs and even at the pro level leaving me to wonder if tackling is that complicated. I'm not about to leave the coaches (specifically Helton) out of this. Some of his hirings have been questionable. So have some play calling - lack of creativity, failure to convert on fourth-and-one, limited use of the tight end for passes (although neither did Sarkisian or Kiffin before him), opponents completion rate with long yards to go, lack of leadership among the players to pick people up when things are going bad so players easily give in when faced with adversity, seemingly lenient attitude to players as it relates to fouling. I won't make wild accusations given that I'm not close enough to the team to know why things are the way they are. If they are not the greatest coaches in the world, they certainly are not stupid and they know the game better than virtually all the posters. They also have info that we don't have.

    But with everything above, I can make a good case for the firing of Helton. Why do some feel the need to pad things with unfounded charges? Which, unfortunately, I see many posters doing here.
     
  18. Hockey10

    Hockey10 Junior Member


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    Oct 17, 2019 at 9:47 PM
    #18
    A couple of comments. The sanctions are long over and both Kiffin and Sark left a wealth of talented players here at USC for Helton. Then he/ Tee Martin brought in more high recruits. They had the talent to win the Rose Bowl and continue great recruiting. Therefore the drop in execution and winning was do to his coaching, assistant coaches, practices, and lack of game planning/ adjustments.

    You brought up Kiffin and Sark so therefore it is only fare to mention that each of these coaches were fired when they performed poorly. Therefore Helton shouldn't be exempt. He has had more time and has had better conditions than both (they were on sanctions) and he is performing worse and recruiting far worse.
    As for performance. Yes some players don't pan out but coaches like Saban, Meyer's, PC get these players to NC's and top Bowls consistently. A coach like Petersen took a team of 2 & 3 stars like Boise St and coached them to something above an 800 winning % and to major Bowl games. Helton has had to many excuses made for him. If us fans feel that way than you are right, the recruits feel that way too. They hear us fans and they believe us fans. They hear the media saying he is one of the coaches on the hottest seats and it isn't because of our message board post. It's his doing.
     
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  19. bell

    bell Points Member


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    Oct 17, 2019 at 10:58 PM
    #19
    RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE

    The sanctions may be over but we haven't recovered from them to be recruiting at the level of some of the SEC and Big 10 schools partly because of the Kiffin/Sarkisian fiasco, which you can blame on SC, and the 5-7 season which is on Helton. They may have left decent players for Helton but certainly not championship caliber. Saban, Carroll et al may have had players that didn't pan out but the quality and quantity of talent on their 85-man team are far above anything Helton has had even without mentioning that they all operated programs that were in stability.

    People love to bring up Petersen but he's 1- 1 against Helton, both games in Seattle. If he did all that miracle at Boise St. with 2- and 3-star players, why's he not doing more at UDub where he's had better players? Even I expected him to do far more than he's doing so far. Where are those creative plays that his team exhibited at Boise St?

    I'm not making excuses for Helton having said I can make a case for him being fired. All I'm asking for is fairness. Do we need to make up stories like he took over OC duties from Harrell at BYU in the second half when it never happened even after Harrell himself denied it? I'd be worried to have a case in court with some of these posters in the jury.
     
  20. Hockey10

    Hockey10 Junior Member


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    Oct 18, 2019 at 12:33 PM
    #20
    Stories possibly being made up? Yes some people are guessing at what happenes but talent you can't deny. USC has been in the top recruiting class every year with Helton and even Kiffin and Sark brought in elite recruits with limited scholarships. After the Rose Bowl win and no sanctions there was no reason for recruits to stop coming to USC other than Helton and his staff. Let's just agree to disagree. It is obvious we see things completely different.
     

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